Celestion F12-X200

Took my CLR and F12X200 to practice today. I used @Burgs 3atetoo preset. Using both speakers was a pretty full sound, but I spent the last half of practice using just the F12X200. Together with the PS170 and an FM3 when it becomes available will make for a light weight simple rig to play our Blues setlist.
 
I put 2 of these in my Marshall 1936 bottom. I a/b the speaker cabs with the NL12 speakers by themselves. I like the tone of the NL12, but the Marshall was way different from the KTH and V30 I had in it.

I put the f12 in the NL12 cab and too early to crank up yet, but I like the cab with that speaker. The NL12 porting makes a big difference with the F12. Gonna turn it up after everyone gets up and if good at louder volume, gonna build the Celestion box and try that.

The NL12 cab is a nice cab. I may just copy that one. Too bad I can't find any empty ones. Not all of the screws line up for the celestion though. I was able to get 4 of the screws in just like the Marshall mounts them. 2 things for sure, the F12 speakers are really nice and the NL12 speakers by themselves sound awesome too.
 
ok, no comparison, at louder volumes, the NL12 rocks the world and the f12 - not so much. The NL12's are better IMO. My son likes the F12s in the 1936 cab - need to adjust some EQ for that cab and match some IRs too. It is a harsh high end right now without a cab.
 
seems like they NEED a cab and are not meant for straight amp use without a cab. I am going to have to experiment with some cabs and see if the Celestion IR makes any difference. I have not worked with IRs, I guess now will be the time.
 
I can't really understand why you would get a celestion guitar speaker, deliberately flatten its response, and then use an IR to drive its response back to what it would have been anyway??

Why not bypass the cab block and use a normal guitar speaker?

What if you want to tone of different Celestion speakers for different presets ?

V30 in a Mesa 4x12 for one, Vintage GB in a Marshall TV for another.... 1x12 cream back for another....
 
It is not just a celestion speaker, the frequency range is a broader spectrum made for IR processing, that is why... You need to look at the specs and them try to understand. Bypassing the cab in the patches gives me a harsh brightness. Trying different cabs give you a different tone. It is more of an experiment with me. I love the Matrix NL12 boxes. They are brutal sounding! I usually pay for my curiosity, but the F12's are made for exactly processing IRs.
 
What if you want to tone of different Celestion speakers for different presets ?

V30 in a Mesa 4x12 for one, Vintage GB in a Marshall TV for another.... 1x12 cream back for another....
I can see your point there - the question then is whether a traditional FRFR monitor can work as well as a FR celestion speaker - which is what a lot of this discussion is about - time will tell.
 
I can see your point there - the question then is whether a traditional FRFR monitor can work as well as a FR celestion speaker - which is what a lot of this discussion is about - time will tell.

Given the coaxial design, cross-over etc, I think this isn’t really too much of a traditional Celestion speaker. It’s more like a Emimence Beta 12A, paired with the screw in tweeter, and not having to buy your own cross over. It’s kind of a FRFR-ish, plug and play, with different cabs having obvious tonal changes. You can throw it into a smaller open back, or you can build the large ported design Celestion spec’d, or you could put it into a 4x12 cab etc, but obviously all will sound different.

Could sound pretty cool in a lot of stuff though and for guys with an empty cab sitting around totally worth trying out I think. At the same time, so much good turn key stuff from Xitone, Atomic, etc with all the work done don’t know how huge of market there will be for the DIY....

If I had an empty 1x12, and I still had a little EHX 44 Magnum amp, I think I’d buy one just to play with it and see how it sounded
 
Interesting design. It has 2 driver coils - LF and HF and a crossover circuit, but only one paper cone. The HF uses the central dust cap as a Suedo tweeter. Like all things in music if it sounds good it is good.
 
Zilla in the UK has built cabs for this speaker now. Here is the demo ,the second is the Celestion open source design and a lot better IMO.
Demo with a Kemper unfortunately.

 
Both cabs do not sound good. Maybe partly because of the incorrect miking.
 
My first impression after installing the F12 in my DIY-GFR-cab: WOW. More punch, more possible controlled Feedback. Overall, way better than the Celestion K12H-200TK, that I was using in the cab, together with a 180 Watt Class D amplifier module.
I will add my further impressions about it in the next weeks...But I must say...that it sounds killer, and I am more able to "know", what the FOH-guy will get from me.
 
elaborate please, I agree that the tones aren't to my taste either but ?
When close-miking a standard guitar speaker, millimeter changes in mic position cause significant tonal changes. The center of the speaker is very bright, while the further you get out to the edge is more bassy. So depending on your placement, you are only getting a specific snapshot of what a single area of the speaker sounds like. Most recordings use this method, and most IR's. That's why the Axe-Fx is said to produce a studio guitar sound. It sounds like an entire studio rig in ideal conditions from guitar lead all the way to the preamps of the console. When miking the F12-X200, you are trying to show that ideal representation and highlight the possible coloration of the "FRFR" cabinet. You want to represent the whole sound, not an idiosyncratic close miked sound (miking an already miked up sound..), as the FRFR representation is already the finished product. For this, I would suppose a very flat mic or a series of mics placed in phase with each other, positioned at a far enough distance would be the way to accurately capture a reasonable reproduction of it. This would likely have to take place in a large enough room that the reflections of sound don't smear the initial signal.

I wouldn't call it incorrect micing. But it seems when people try to demonstrate how an FRFR speaker sounds, they frustratingly close mic it more often than not, giving a tiny snapshot rather than the full picture of the sound.

What I wish for is a demonstration that mics the full signal of the speaker in a better way, with an A/B comparison of the original signal (axe fx signal), a proper eq curve graph, and maybe an out of phase combination of the two signals with an eq graph. If anyone knows of a comparable example, please link me to it.
 
Ok just got my Xitone passive wedges and put F12x200s in and I am very happy with the result. The global EQ needed a tweak (treble cut and bass boost ) nothing too extreme, but they now sound and feel like a guitar cab.
The cab I was using to test the F12 was the mesa Thiele and you couldn't eq away the sound of the cab. In this cab the EQ is hugely responsive to slight changes with those results delivered . No overbearing cab or speaker character interferes with the IR.
Thanks Mike (Xitone) for offering to sell me empty cabs .
Those wanting to try these speakers should realise that the sound (what ever Celestion say) will be dependant to a large degree on the suitability of the cab . Also don't expect the output with no global EQ set to be great, it must be tuned to suit .
I think Fractal should make some preset global EQ curves storable . Say 5 preprogrammed and 5 user on a quick access basis made to address typical user environments (cabs, amps etc.) including something like the old "Loudness" control on a stereo. Yes you can do this yourself but many don't seem too and try to dial the presets instead and this is a fundamental error. Back to what I say about presets ; we need a control method to zero in the rig to make things cross compatible so I hear the stock presets the same as you what ever you put them through (as much as possible.)
Line 6 did this years back and it helped particularly the people new to the concept of FR FR and modelling in general. In the past good was good end of but with FR FR it matters how you get there too or everything goes to hell every time you change preset.
 
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