When did the guitar became a pariah instrument?

I've been the guy at the FOH, and nothing sucks more then having a loud asshole guitar player with his giant stack that needs to be at 11 in order to sound good. Because then you can't do jack shit with that sound in the mix. Basically you turn off their mics and the only guitar the audience will hear is stage volume.

So go ahead, be a dick to the FOH engineer. And then wonder why your band sounds like shit. Being a dick to the FOH engineer is like being a rude asshole to the people who prepare and serve your food. The days of the loud obnoxious asshole guitar player are over. Hell, if we're not careful the days of the guitar player are over period.

Where did I say I was being a dick to a sound engineer? Where did I say we are rude to the staff at any venue? Also you nailed it - all you'll get is stage volume. Which at that point is loud enough ;).

Again, the days of loud guitars are not over. I implore you to look up the band Sleep.

Isn't this essentially so many of us are now using the Axe=Fx instead of hauling multiple amps, huge boards, and needing tons of volume to not sound 'subpar' ??? With a modeler we can achieve ideal amp tone at any level we want, not to mention not needing to freight a bunch of different amps around.

Perhaps not surprisingly, you don't really seem to hear volume or FOH issues from all the bands that are touring with FAS rigs these days. Everyone just seems to always say the guitars and band mix sounded great, night after night.

I do hear issues. The issues is sound techs who aren't used to modeling tech, and bands who don't have their own sound tech. The mix can sound great sure, but running any current modeling rig isn't a guarantee of that. That's why everyone has the choice of a 100W head pushing 412's or a modeler into a powered 112 or a modeller into a 100W power amp into two 412's. Get the setup that works for you.
 
Straight up dumbest article I've read in a very long time.

IEM don't do any good saving hearing? He must already be deaf.

Unacceptable for FOH to be in control? They're the one's making you sound good. If you don't trust your sound guy, stage volume isn't going to help one bit.

Louder stage amp volumes contribute to fuller sound? He apparently likes mud, and all the sound issues and inconsistencies that come with having highly directional cabs pointed around the stage.

I don't understand how a professional got that far into his career maintaining those kinds of misconceptions.
 
Artist > Soundguy


Usually the exact opposite is true.... ever let each member of the band dial in a mix ? 95% of the time their own instrument is louder... go figure

Good of an engineer is to mix a band as a whole, not just make the guitar twice as loud as the keys, etc, even though they guitar player or “artist” is sure everyone only wants to hear him.

Engineering is as much an art form as playing an instrument
 
Doesn't Joe sell amp baffles on his website? I saw a thing with him once, where he was saying that his amps are set so loud that if he doesn't put plexiglass shields in front of his amps, then he (along with anybody standing in front of him), goes home with some amount of hearing loss. :rolleyes:

Ummm. I remember a time - way-back when (early 80's), the Bassist in my band also played in another band, and I went to see him play. ..Chris, he was playing though his HUGE stack, the guitar player in that band was playing through a hundred watt Marshall & 4x12 cab, and, when they began to play their first number, they sounded great! ... After the first number I couldn't stand in front of the guitar - just too much volume. He kept turning up his amp.

...Throughout the gig, Chris (the bass player), was getting pissed at the sound-guy, Anthony, he kept turning up his Marshall, after three songs the only place that band sounded good was in the back, next to the sound-guy, where He kept adjusting to compensate for the guitar and bass being turned up.

At the end of the gig, Chris, he was fuming - he grabbed the mike from the vocalist and just started laying into the sound-guy over the PA (until he was cut off), then he threw the mike across the stage, Anthony, (guitar player), he stormed off the stage - BOTH thought they couldn't be heard.

And they could..

They sounded fine, until they started screwing with their own amp levels. Then, it was NOT fun standing anywhere near the front row of that concert.

Moral of this story? ...Decent monitoring is important. ...and, just because you can't hear yourself, or others, doesn't mean that nobody else can hear you. .. and, generally, leave your levels alone and let the sound guy handle it. They might have screwed up your stage monitoring levels (been there a few times - that - just - plain - sucks!), but, you most likely sound pretty-decent-to-great out front.
 
Straight up dumbest article I've read in a very long time.

IEM don't do any good saving hearing? He must already be deaf.

Unacceptable for FOH to be in control? They're the one's making you sound good. If you don't trust your sound guy, stage volume isn't going to help one bit.

Louder stage amp volumes contribute to fuller sound? He apparently likes mud, and all the sound issues and inconsistencies that come with having highly directional cabs pointed around the stage.

I don't understand how a professional got that far into his career maintaining those kinds of misconceptions.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The comment from Joe about IEM made me hope he was trolling. Sadly, I think he is serious.
 
Don't know if this has been posted but i found it interesting and i agree with Joe:
https://guitar.com/features/opinion-analysis/joe-bonamassa-playing-loud/
So do I. Even with an Axe Fx I widely prefer a (well balanced) backline using a CLR. All this in-ear stuff is quite fake IMHO, a kind of "hey did you see me with my pro in ear thing" and a vaste emotion killer. Maybe useful if you play Wembley on a multiple acre stage size but that's not the case for the majority of us and it probably never will be. Many professional cover bands here play with this in-ear garbage now and their concerts become stone cold performances for most of them. When you stand on the stage side it's like you're visioning a tap dance act with a drum set behind...absolutely lifeless and boring. Same for the first row of the audience who generally are behind the FOH hanging above. Seems more a freaky hype than a real need. Played in a band rehearsing in-ear, replacement job for one concert and for me It's missing a part of instrumental communication. Will not repeat the experience....oops, sorry for those who swear with iem, I just don't see it as future but more as a fashion. Regarding sound engineers..imho nowadays most are quite happy when you come up with an axe fx.
 
I find it interesting that people here are bashing Joe for what he said. I'm guessing that Joe is a more accomplished player and has more stage experience than anyone that has responded. He can say what he wants - if that's his experience and what works for him, then who cares ? The guy has worked his ass off to get where hes at and obviously its working for him. He also has some of the best recorded and live tones out there - he obviously knows a thing or two about guitar tone. Axe works for me, maybe not for others - who cares ? Whose to say who is right and wrong? He wants control over his tone - whether good or bad its his choice. That's what HE wants - if you want something different - fine. But don't bash the guy because he may do something differently.
 
So do I. Even with an Axe Fx I widely prefer a (well balanced) backline using a CLR. All this in-ear stuff is quite fake IMHO, a kind of "hey did you see me with my pro in ear thing" and a vaste emotion killer. Maybe useful if you play Wembley on a multiple acre stage size but that's not the case for the majority of us and it probably never will be. Many professional cover bands here play with this in-ear garbage now and their concerts become stone cold performances for most of them. When you stand on the stage side it's like you're visioning a tap dance act with a drum set behind...absolutely lifeless and boring. Same for the first row of the audience who generally are behind the FOH hanging above. Seems more a freaky hype than a real need. Played in a band rehearsing in-ear, replacement job for one concert and for me It's missing a part of instrumental communication. Will not repeat the experience....oops, sorry for those who swear with iem, I just don't see it as future but more as a fashion. Regarding sound engineers..imho nowadays most are quite happy when you come up with an axe fx.
As always, each to their own on IEM's but it's not a passing thing. More and more bands are using them - even at the club level - mostly because you can hear everything you need to (CLEARLY) and it protects your hearing. The expense has dropped dramatically and even the "average" bar band who plays regularly can afford a digital system.
There will always be those who can't move to them, don't like them, need the "amp in the room" feel, etc. They're a dying breed. No offense intended. The only loss of emotion or feel I have seen is perceptive.
IEM's are hear to stay.. it's OK to stand outside and look in tho. :)
PS: On my last test, I have no hearing loss/damage from the last 10 yrs.. all of which have been w /IEM's. :rolleyes:
 
I find it interesting that people here are bashing Joe for what he said. I'm guessing that Joe is a more accomplished player and has more stage experience than anyone that has responded. He can say what he wants - if that's his experience and what works for him, then who cares ? The guy has worked his ass off to get where hes at and obviously its working for him. He also has some of the best recorded and live tones out there - he obviously knows a thing or two about guitar tone. Axe works for me, maybe not for others - who cares ? Whose to say who is right and wrong? He wants control over his tone - whether good or bad its his choice. That's what HE wants - if you want something different - fine. But don't bash the guy because he may do something differently.


Part of it isn’t opinion though, it’s a known fact that sound exposure results in hearing loss, tinnitus, reduced frequency resolution etc.

If Joe wants to crank his amp, more power to him, just as if Joe wants to play American Football with a leather helmet, go for it, but I’d sure hate to see my kid playing without proper modern helmets because we know now that a leather helmet doesn’t cut it (maybe not even modern ones for that matter)

That is the issue, saying crank it up, when we know that is hurting the audience....

It’s like if a bands smoke machine was carbon monoxide.... not really want you want to pay good money to experience....
 
Part of it isn’t opinion though, it’s a known fact that sound exposure results in hearing loss, tinnitus, reduced frequency resolution etc.

If Joe wants to crank his amp, more power to him, just as if Joe wants to play American Football with a leather helmet, go for it, but I’d sure hate to see my kid playing without proper modern helmets because we know now that a leather helmet doesn’t cut it (maybe not even modern ones for that matter)

That is the issue, saying crank it up, when we know that is hurting the audience....

It’s like if a bands smoke machine was carbon monoxide.... not really want you want to pay good money to experience....

I read the article and didn't find any such extreme positions from JB. He just prefers direct sound to IEM after having tried it, WTH ?
 
Why is ROCK guitar music dead?

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Artist > Soundguy

Everything the artist does relies on the soundguy. If the soundguy sucks, I suck. I value good engineers so much. As a musician, you need to have a good relationship with your soundguy. If he's unfamiliar with your band, have a conversation about what you aim to sound like. A good mix engineer will adjust accordingly.

So do I. Even with an Axe Fx I widely prefer a (well balanced) backline using a CLR. All this in-ear stuff is quite fake IMHO, a kind of "hey did you see me with my pro in ear thing" and a vaste emotion killer. ...

IEM's are one of the most important purchases I have ever made. Every musician I work with uses them. I understand the drawbacks of feeling a bit isolated (especially on low quality systems), but I won't ever go back.

I find it interesting that people here are bashing Joe for what he said. I'm guessing that Joe is a more accomplished player and has more stage experience than anyone that has responded. ...

This is just isn't healthy reasoning. His experience only makes his poor understanding of modern sound that much more inexcusable.

I read the article and didn't find any such extreme positions from JB. He just prefers direct sound to IEM after having tried it, WTH ?

He said it alright. I read it twice just to be sure I understood correctly. Quote:

"It’s all the same and you run that loudness directly into your eardrums for 90 minutes at a time. In reality, you are not saving your hearing at all, regardless of popular belief."
 
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