Most "in the room" FRFR solution

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Gr8fulPickr

New Member
I'm a beginner at guitar and discovered the Fractal modelling systems. Planning to get an AX8 soon unless I can convince the wife that the III would make an excellent Christmas present (doubtful). I'm trying to plan out the rest of the rig setup I will need so I can budget and plan which order I would add each component.

My understanding is that the AX8 does not have a headphone jack, but that I can get a y-adapter and use that with my cans. So I can use the AX8 or III with my headphones until I can decide on a better long term speaker solution.

I have a dedicated spare bedroom for practicing. I'm trying to decide if I should go the studio monitor route or just get a FRFR speaker. I don't currently play out anywhere and probably won't for awhile, but I do want the option of being able to take a speaker to a friends to jam, so I'm leaning toward the FRFR route.

I really want that amp "in the room" feel with a crystalline high end and some 3-dimensionality to the sound. I probably want a stereo setup.

I live in Latin America, so auditioning in person will be hard though I might be able to take some time when I'm in London later this month to do some auditions.

Which FRFR speakers have the most "in the room" sound & feel to them?
 
Incidentally, I haven't set a budget for this yet so feel free to recommend anything. I'm just trying to get a feel for what people think about this. I've already done some research and narrowed down to a few considerations, but want to hear from others about this specific requirement.
 
I don’t think there is much to be said that hasn’t been said hundreds of times before in these forums.

Quick search will reveal thousands of posts and opinions on all things FRFR, studio monitors, “amp in room” etc

Quite frankly, given I’ve already written thousands of words on the subject, and my opinions haven’t changed, I’m not going to spend considerable time typing it all up again.

I can’t speak for others, but would imagine most would feel the same, as such, search is your friend
 
I’m curious about this also as I’ve just purchased the III and it’s on the way.

From what I’ve read, I hear the Yamaha DXR 10’s are a really nice mid priced option.
A lot of love here for the Xitone & CLR’s but they usually run around a grand, and not sure if they’re $500 better than the DXR as I’ve never heard either.
Line 6 has a new Power Cab that’s suppose to do the amp in room thing, but I’ve been reading mixed reviews on them and again I’ve never personally used one.
I feel the Axe is so flexible you can tweak it to sound good on just about anything.
I was using a pair of Altos with my XL + and it sounded ok, but would like to upgrade .
 
Xitone MBritt is an open back FRFR. In one sense that is kind of the definition of amp-in-the-room.
 
Just a quick comment (but in general my input is the same as @lqdsnddist - search and read).

"Amp/Cab in the room FRFR" is an oxymoron.

If you are using FRFR then you will be hearing the sound of a mic'd speaker and not the sound "in the room".
 
sam said:
Xitone MBritt is an open back FRFR. In one sense that is kind of the definition of amp-in-the-room.
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If your definition of “amp in room” is an open back combo amp then sure, but, it’s not going to sound/feel like what a closed back 4x12 cabinet does in the same room.

Sadly there are lots of different amps and lots of different rooms, so it’s a rather subjective term as far as what “amp in room” even sounds like
 
sam said:
Xitone MBritt is an open back FRFR. In one sense that is kind of the definition of amp-in-the-room.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

The (misnomer) "Amp in the room" is referring to hearing the unmic'd guitar speaker directly (with your ears, in the room) as opposed to the mic'd sound through a reference speaker (studio monitor, FRFR cab, etc).
 
Jarick said:
What gear do you have now?

A Fractal setup, while being a lot of fun, seems like way overkill for a beginner...
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Really? Financially speaking, this approach seems fsr more economical. I can get an AX8 for $1100 and a decent FRFR speaker for $500-1000, so I'm in the range of spending $1,600-2100 and I'm done.

I was planning to get a Princeton Reverb, but locally (I live in Latin America right now), the Princeton would be $1,500. Then I'd need to add some pedals. 3 or 4 pedals and I'm already well over the cost of the Fractal based setup.

As a beginner, I want to be able to quickly dial up a tone that matches whatever song I'm learning and be in the ballpark quickly. I can do that much more easily with a Fractal based system than I could with a traditional amp and pedal setup.

To me, the amp and fx modelling seems far more suited for a beginner looking to explore lots of different tones than a more experienced player who might already know the tones they are after.
 
Gr8fulPickr said:
Really? Financially speaking, this approach seems fsr more economical. I can get an AX8 for $1100 and a decent FRFR speaker for $500-1000, so I'm in the range of spending $1,600-2100 and I'm done.

I was planning to get a Princeton Reverb, but locally (I live in Latin America right now), the Princeton would be $1,500. Then I'd need to add some pedals. 3 or 4 pedals and I'm already well over the cost of the Fractal based setup.

As a beginner, I want to be able to quickly dial up a tone that matches whatever song I'm learning and be in the ballpark quickly. I can do that much more easily with a Fractal based system than I could with a traditional amp and pedal setup.

To me, the amp and fx modelling seems far more suited for a beginner looking to explore lots of different tones than a more experienced player who might already know the tones they are after.
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If i didn't need a solution for live for a while, I would settle for a pair of real good 6~8 inch monitors for now - easier to haul around - I have a pair of Adam-A7 that sound great for recording/listening and they can go loud enough to get a just bit of the feel of stage volume in a small room. I guess they wouldn't have the focus of a FRFR, but the two of them could be pointed different directions to vary coverage. not suitable with live drums of coarse. FRFR is ideal for everything except convenience - I imagine the clarity of focus of dispersion is excellent.

If in the room means like 'everywhere', then the wide dispersion FRFR might be preferable.
If it means 'pants wagging' then a cab might be better or a FRFR with less dispersion.
 
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Gr8fulPickr said:
Really? Financially speaking, this approach seems fsr more economical. I can get an AX8 for $1100 and a decent FRFR speaker for $500-1000, so I'm in the range of spending $1,600-2100 and I'm done.

I was planning to get a Princeton Reverb, but locally (I live in Latin America right now), the Princeton would be $1,500. Then I'd need to add some pedals. 3 or 4 pedals and I'm already well over the cost of the Fractal based setup.

As a beginner, I want to be able to quickly dial up a tone that matches whatever song I'm learning and be in the ballpark quickly. I can do that much more easily with a Fractal based system than I could with a traditional amp and pedal setup.

To me, the amp and fx modelling seems far more suited for a beginner looking to explore lots of different tones than a more experienced player who might already know the tones they are after.
Click to expand...

Hey, if it works for you I won't knock it! I was thinking more along the lines of a Boss Katana or something pretty simple. I get distracted really easily by all the options. And that takes away from my playing time.

I've got in addition to the AX8 a Katana as well as a Yamaha THR10X. When I want to buckle down and practice, I usually plug into the Yamaha. When I want to play with the best tone possible, I run through the Fractal.

The Yamaha is also really cool because it's battery powered and low volume, so you can bring it around the house or portable. I think it's a great complement to the Fractal.
 
There is no one size fits all... Without any parameters on what the OP is looking for, budget, setup, etc its going to be 10 guys suggesting 10 different speakers. I would recommend that you look for something with a 10" or 12" speaker. You can get good tones from small speakers, but you loose the low mids with smaller speakers.
 
chrisjnyc said:
There is no one size fits all... Without any parameters on what the OP is looking for, budget, setup, etc its going to be 10 guys suggesting 10 different speakers. I would recommend that you look for something with a 10" or 12" speaker. You can get good tones from small speakers, but you loose the low mids with smaller speakers.
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If a 10 or 12” speaker has more low mids than a 5 or 6” speaker, then one of them isn’t a very good reference monitor/FRFR speaker.

Who’s going to buy a 6” monitor that has a big mid dip or a 10” that has a mid peak ? That’s kind of a design failure, IMO

I have 12” CLR’s right next to 6” Scepter S6’s, both coaxial deigns, and they sound near identical at the same output levels. Just as they should too, because the S6’s are a $1000 pair of monitors, as the CLR costs a grand too. Spending that type of money is supposed to get you something that is pretty accurate, no?
 
In my research watching YouTube reviews, several reviewers suggest the Mission Gemini 2 with their mPower has the best amp in the room sound. But it's super pricey, so curious if any other FRFR speakers at lower price points will give that feel. Not sure how to be more specific than that.
 
Gr8fulPickr said:
In my research watching YouTube reviews, several reviewers suggest the Mission Gemini 2 with their mPower has the best amp in the room sound. But it's super pricey, so curious if any other FRFR speakers at lower price points will give that feel. Not sure how to be more specific than that.
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Trying to judge the sound, and worse, the "feel" of a FRFR speaker, as its been recorded by a microphone (often on a smartphone or video camera) and then having the audio quality compressed for YouTube, and then played back on different speakers doesn't tell you much.

You can tell as much about how "in the room" it sounds watching a recorded youtube clip as you can tell how something taste by watching a cooking clip

Your not hearing "in the room", your hearing what is essentially a mic'd speaker
 
unix-guy said:
I disagree.

The (misnomer) "Amp in the room" is referring to hearing the unmic'd guitar speaker directly (with your ears, in the room) as opposed to the mic'd sound through a reference speaker (studio monitor, FRFR cab, etc).
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Well, that's why I said "in one sense". Amp in the room is not just the guitar speaker, it is also the sound of that speaker/cab combination reflecting in the room. You can never get the former (unmic'd guitar speaker sound) from an FRFR with cab/mic modeling. However, you can get more of the later (speaker sound bouncing around the room) with an open back cab.
 
Gr8fulPickr said:
several reviewers suggest the Mission Gemini 2 with their mPower has the best amp in the room sound.
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There is no such thing as 'the best'.
There are a variety of great solutions for $1k+ (XiTone, CLR, Mission, RCF NX12, Yamaha DSR/DZR) and they all have pros/cons.
There are a variet of lower priced solutions that some folks are super happy with (JBL PRX -used, Yamaha DXR, Alto, EV).

The best thing you can do is read through these threads and pick some possible options in your budget, and then search your area to see if you can try/rent any. If not (based on your location), then you need to pick something and give it a run. If you don't like it, sell it and try something else.

But there is no answer to your question 'which is the best'.
If there was, this section of the forum would only contain 1 thread.
 
I think any speaker can sound “in the room” if you do to it what we naturally do with guitar cabs. Face the speaker at your ankles and stand far away from it. Now the sound is hitting the room before your ears directly and bam, in the room.

When people get PA speakers or studio monitors, they aim it directly at their face and wonder why the sound is so different. Positioning is a huge factor.
 
sam said:
Well, that's why I said "in one sense". Amp in the room is not just the guitar speaker, it is also the sound of that speaker/cab combination reflecting in the room. You can never get the former (unmic'd guitar speaker sound) from an FRFR with cab/mic modeling. However, you can get more of the later (speaker sound bouncing around the room) with an open back cab.
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You could actually come really close if you captured IR’s of the front and rear etc of a cabinet, and then used FRFR speakers facing each direction. Then you’d simply need to put that rig in the same room, and you’d essentially recreate it.

In some regards, I find a good frfr speaker with really wide dispersion, like a CLR, actually fills the room with sound better than many guitar cabinets, which are very beamy and directional.

People mistakenly think a real cabinet sends sound all around the room, which is really doesn’t, especially if it’s a closed back. Closed back 1x12 is directional as heck, especially if you have it sitting at your ankles.

FRFR speaker is designer to spread sound wide and even, and in a smaller room, it’s got better dispersion which then reflects off more walls.

I can sit my Princeton open back and my CLR side by side and the CLR actually sounds more “in the room” than the open back amp.

In fact, I bet most “amp in room” loyalist would not be able to tell me which was which if I blindfolded them and had them play them side by side, with many picking the CLR becasue it sounds “better” ie; more full and rich from its dispersion and larger speaker.
 
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