Using MFC for changing SCENES + MIDI Switching an amp

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khvMX

Member
Hey dear Fractal community! Please, help a newb here. I am pretty new to MFC, so I'm failing to find examples on things I want to achieve..

I'm using AxeFxII via 4CM with Line6 DT50 combo. MIDI cables run from the AxeFxII to DT50, MFC is connected via Ethernet and is set up accordingly. MIDI THRU is active in AxeFxII I/O.

I want to achieve the following setup:
- I have a "preset" per song with pre-set tempo for time-effects, say, a delay;
- I would probably also want to assign expression pedals per song differently (like having one expression pedal controlling wah on one songs, and the very same pedal controlling a whammy-like pitch on other song);
- Each song has a couple of scenes (corresponding to song parts);
- I want to assign some MIDI commands to the "SCENE" switches on MFC so that they not only switch the scenes in preset, but also switch things in the amplifier (DT50).

The first trouble I have is that DT50 expects things on MIDI Channel 1, so it probably implicates that I would have to run AxeFx on another MIDI Channel (e.g., 2), right?

There's a MIDI implementation guide for DT50 which says that it expects commands on MIDI Channel 1: https://line6.com/media/dt50/DT_MIDIGuide_v2_0_RevA_English.pdf

The second trouble is that I would probably have to use General IA switches instead of "Axe SCENE" switches which will break the lights behaviour, so that when I switch to another scene the previous scene will stay light up, right?

Sorry if I'm mixing everything up, it's all kind of messy for me.
 
Okay, I set AxeFx on MIDI channel 2 on both AxeFx and the MFC.
I am able to switch SCENES in AxeFx using General IA switches by sending default CC34 with values 3 for SCENE4 and it works. What was to be expected though is that now even if I select another SCENE, the IA state of another SCENE General IA Switch stays "ON" and the light is still lit up. That is, I can switch SCENES 1 to 5 via General IA Switches, but all of the 5 IA Switches will be lit up after pressing each one once.
So my question is now simpler. Suppose I have normal SCENE switches on MFC (from SCENE1 to SCENE5) which behave nicely by lighting only one SCENE switch at a time. Now I want to add a custom MIDI command to each of these switches without breaking the nice behaviour of scenes switching.
Is it possible?
 
khvMX said:
Okay, I set AxeFx on MIDI channel 2 on both AxeFx and the MFC.
I am able to switch SCENES in AxeFx using General IA switches by sending default CC34 with values 3 for SCENE4 and it works. What was to be expected though is that now even if I select another SCENE, the IA state of another SCENE General IA Switch stays "ON" and the light is still lit up. That is, I can switch SCENES 1 to 5 via General IA Switches, but all of the 5 IA Switches will be lit up after pressing each one once.
So my question is now simpler. Suppose I have normal SCENE switches on MFC (from SCENE1 to SCENE5) which behave nicely by lighting only one SCENE switch at a time. Now I want to add a custom MIDI command to each of these switches without breaking the nice behaviour of scenes switching.
Is it possible?
Click to expand...
You'll want to see page 29 here (I had to if the MFC supported it):

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/mfc-101/MFC-101-Owners-Manual.pdf

You want to create what Fractal calls "switch links"... Other controllers I've seen call them "switch groups". They are groups of mutually exclusive switches.

The MFC allows for up to 2 groups of 5 switches... If you only need 5 scenes, you'll be ok.
 
By the way, I'm sort of helping myself because I will need this info when I get the Axe Fx III until the new FCs are available:)
 
unix-guy said:
You'll want to see page 29 here (I had to if the MFC supported it):

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/mfc-101/MFC-101-Owners-Manual.pdf

You want to create what Fractal calls "switch links"... Other controllers I've seen call them "switch groups". They are groups of mutually exclusive switches.

The MFC allows for up to 2 groups of 5 switches... If you only need 5 scenes, you'll be ok.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll try this out today. Did not reach these "advanced" MFC topics yet ;) But I'm getting closer and closer to my dream rig ;)
I will post things here as soon as I get something interesting working :)
What I can change in the DT via MIDI are those parameters (which makes the DT a really versatile power section for AxeFx):

screen2.1.jpg
 
Maybe you could make use of the 17 internal CCs.
Only problem is that it is assigned per preset and not per scene.
 
dongzo said:
Maybe you could make use of the 17 internal CCs.
Only problem is that it is assigned per preset and not per scene.
Click to expand...
I will probably use the CCs on a per-song basis. To set some of the DT-50 settings like A/B Channel Topologies, PENTODE/TRIODE, or CLASS A/B / CLASS A.
I have tried the LINK thing for 5 SCENES and it works great! I am testing this today with the DT-50. I have assigned the IA switches 1-5 to be Global and also change DT-50 channels along with the AxeFx SCENES. Will post how it works! Maybe even a video? :)
 
Okay, I can confirm, the LINK feature is working for me! I'm now switching SCENES and DT-50 Channels simultaneously.

Regarding the MIDI channel, I found a caveat when running AxeFx on MIDI channel other than 1. My expression pedal suddenly stopped working completely, until I found the Edit->MIDI->XP settings where all the expression pedals were set on channel 1. Changing this to Ch02 (my AxeFx is on MIDI channel 2) solved the issue. I'm wondering if there are any other potential problems I could run into if running AxeFx on MIDI channel 2?
 
khvMX said:
Okay, I can confirm, the LINK feature is working for me! I'm now switching SCENES and DT-50 Channels simultaneously.

Regarding the MIDI channel, I found a caveat when running AxeFx on MIDI channel other than 1. My expression pedal suddenly stopped working completely, until I found the Edit->MIDI->XP settings where all the expression pedals were set on channel 1. Changing this to Ch02 (my AxeFx is on MIDI channel 2) solved the issue. I'm wondering if there are any other potential problems I could run into if running AxeFx on MIDI channel 2?
Click to expand...
I think probably only XP and XS settings would be affected by the midi channel.
 
I have the same Scene switching and Preset switching problem. And I like to. Switch 7 scenes so the MFC link feature doesn‘t work for me. :(

I think I have to do it with a simple Arduino solution....
 
can someone give me a Dummy's rundown on the switch link and how to apply it to scenes. I read the manual but im still not getting the concept
 
Tigertone said:
can someone give me a Dummy's rundown on the switch link and how to apply it to scenes. I read the manual but im still not getting the concept
Click to expand...
Add all (up to 5) IAs that you are using for scenes to the same switch group... That's pretty much it.
 
khvMX said:
Okay, I can confirm, the LINK feature is working for me! I'm now switching SCENES and DT-50 Channels simultaneously.
Click to expand...

So if I understand it, you've programmed an IA to select a scene AND send a command to your DT50? But won't it send the same command to your DT50 regardless of which preset you select?
 
56panhead said:
So if I understand it, you've programmed an IA to select a scene AND send a command to your DT50?
Click to expand...
Yes, correct.

56panhead said:
But won't it send the same command to your DT50 regardless of which preset you select?
Click to expand...
It will, but DT50 is only listening to commands on midi channel 1. I set up the axe Fx to listen on midi channel 2. Hence, all the commands for DT50 get ignored by axe fx and vice versa.
 
khvMX said:
It will, but DT50 is only listening to commands on midi channel 1. I set up the axe Fx to listen on midi channel 2. Hence, all the commands for DT50 get ignored by axe fx and vice versa.
Click to expand...

What I was getting at is that this configuration will always force the same amp configuration for every preset for that particular scene. For example, selecting scene X will ALWAYS switch the amp to the clean channel regardless of which preset you're on. So all your scene configuations (for every preset) MUST have scene X as the clean setting.

I uderstand that some players like this approach, but others like to have the scenes as time-wise progression through the song. For example, one song starts out clean then goes to crunch then lead with delay turned on. So scene 1 is clean, scene 2 is crunch, scene 3 is overdrive. The next song might require a totally different scene "progression".

Am I missing something?
 
What you want is sort of a General Use IA Switch settings which are stored on a per-preset basis. I am not sure if you can achieve this at all.
I have never played with MFC's SONG mode though, maybe it would help somehow?
You could configure each PRESET to send some MIDI commands when it gets activated (refer to p.31 "Preset Internal CC States"). So I could imagine somethings like a SONG mode which make all switches sort of PRESET selectors, and each preset could then send both "DT50"-type messages and Custom MIDI messages to AxeFX (like SCENE change) simultaneously. Could you please try it out? It would be an interesting way of using MFC for sure!
 
khvMX said:
What you want is sort of a General Use IA Switch settings which are stored on a per-preset basis. I am not sure if you can achieve this at all.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, General Use IA switches are not stored on a per-preset basis.

khvMX said:
I have never played with MFC's SONG mode though, maybe it would help somehow?
Click to expand...

I'm playing in Song mode. It doesn't solve the problem.

khvMX said:
You could configure each PRESET to send some MIDI commands when it gets activated (refer to p.31 "Preset Internal CC States"). So I could imagine somethings like a SONG mode which make all switches sort of PRESET selectors, and each preset could then send both "DT50"-type messages and Custom MIDI messages to AxeFX (like SCENE change) simultaneously. Could you please try it out? It would be an interesting way of using MFC for sure!
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand 100%, however, it seems similar to my workaround:
1. Forget about scenes
2. Clear a large block of presets (i.e. 001 to 125)
3. Set bank size to 5
4. For each song, create 5 presets (sort of like scenes)
Now you would be able to setp through the banks, and each step would give you five presets, and for each preset you could send PC and CC messages which would totally control your amp.

My approach is a very inefficient use of the preset spaces, and there may be some glitches switching between presets (compared to scenes). But I can't think of anything else :(
 
56panhead said:
Not sure I understand 100%, however, it seems similar to my workaround:
1. Forget about scenes
2. Clear a large block of presets (i.e. 001 to 125)
3. Set bank size to 5
4. For each song, create 5 presets (sort of like scenes)
Now you would be able to setp through the banks, and each step would give you five presets, and for each preset you could send PC and CC messages which would totally control your amp.

My approach is a very inefficient use of the preset spaces, and there may be some glitches switching between presets (compared to scenes). But I can't think of anything else :(
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what I meant exactly. Anyone else has other ideas?
Could you describe some use case with two songs which would require this "totally different scene progression" so that we could think of another place to optimize?
 
Theoretically what we need is the possibility to map from SCENE number to a MIDI command per SONG.
Like this:

SONG 1:
SCENE 1 -> clean MIDI CC
SCENE 2 -> crunch MIDI CC
SCENE 3 -> lead MIDI CC
SCENE 4 -> lead MIDI CC
SCENE 5 -> lead MIDI CC

SONG 2:
SCENE 1 -> clean MIDI CC
SCENE 2 -> crunch MIDI CC
SCENE 3 -> clean MIDI CC
SCENE 4 -> crunch MIDI CC
SCENE 5 -> lead MIDI CC

We can not store MIDI CCs for SCENES in Axe FX.
What we can do though is the following. Send internal AxeFX MIDI command to activate/deactivate IA Switch. What if we, say, have General IA switches for only interacting with AMP (say clean MIDI CC, crunch MIDI CC, and lead MIDI CC). Can we avoid using tons of PRESETS and make use of the fact that switches states are stored per PRESET/SONG?
I mean we would still use lots of PRESETS, but we could at least reuse the combinations of the switching (like "clean, crunch, lead" and "clean, crunch, clean"), right?
 
khvMX said:
Theoretically what we need is the possibility to map from SCENE number to a MIDI command per SONG.
Like this:

SONG 1:
SCENE 1 -> clean MIDI CC
SCENE 2 -> crunch MIDI CC
SCENE 3 -> lead MIDI CC
SCENE 4 -> lead MIDI CC
SCENE 5 -> lead MIDI CC

SONG 2:
SCENE 1 -> clean MIDI CC
SCENE 2 -> crunch MIDI CC
SCENE 3 -> clean MIDI CC
SCENE 4 -> crunch MIDI CC
SCENE 5 -> lead MIDI CC
Click to expand...

You nailed it. That's what I want to do.

But I wanted to avoid dedicating an IA switch to amp changes. That would mean I would have to hit one IA to configure the amp, and another to change scenes. I'm just not that good a tap dancer AND my Mesa Mark V already has foot controller (non-midi) that gives me that amp-change capabilty. Too bad the Mesa foot controller didn't have midi. I could use it to control the Axe FX ;)
 
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