Help With DIscouragement

Any good amps to try for that heavy tone? Is my power amp in any way tied into this? If so how?

Possibly could be impacted by your power amp... I tried the Fractal through a Crown XLS2000 stereo power amp into a Marshall JCM900 4x12 cab and it sounded great, until I plugged the Fractal into a 50-watt tube head (effects loop RETURN only) and thru the same 4x12. The tube amp was much more like the "amp-in-the-room." Pretty much dead-on, actually. The big difference-maker is the GLOBAL settings on the front panel. Turning the power amp and/or cab modeling on or off makes a sizeable difference. You mentioned wanting a good "metal" patch, try the Dizzy's and Herbie's as a start; no drive pedal needed! Ha! "Das Metal" is an obvious choice. I think you'll find the other secret is in the EQs. You've got a really nice power amp, but it does react differently than a tube amp.

I always try to start with my EQs flat (either Global or the amp's featured EQ) and tweak from there. In the old days, I knew how to set every amp: dime the bass and treble, zero out the mids... Ha! I find it is MUCH easier to dial-in a great tone when I start flat. I hardly ever move more than 3 numbers from flat and find a sweeter tone, quicker. I also tend to roll back the treble and push up the presence control for the highs.

Also picked up a gem well over a decade ago from Bob Rock, when he was producing the Black album for Metallica: turn DOWN the gain to get a heavier sound. Sounds wrong, but it works great. You start over-compressing the tone (in a bad way) when you dime the gain and preamp volume right off the bat. Start in the middle (or less) and work your way into it. You'll probably be surprised at how little you are using when you find the sweet spot. AC/DC uses little gain, it's ALL volume!
 
Last edited:
With metal tone i usually find if i play in isolation for long enough i will find something i percieve to be irritating and try to tweak it out. But i usually end up making it worse. Try playing/tweaking in a band or full recording context
 
There are a few replies here that are confusing the issue:
a) Solid State Amp does not color the tone (if it is half way decent amp).
b) Dialing in with Studio Monitors (with cab block) and then just disabling cab block when using the Bugera cab will NOT sound the same....I would not recommend this at all as a starting point.
c) There is no way to turn of the 'preamp' (which was stated Guitarus Rex's post)

If you have a solid state amp and a real guitar cab, then I would recommend one patch for recording (assuming you're going direct) and another patch for playing through your cab.

Start with your cab tone:
Try the 5153 Red. It's a pretty easy amp to dial for metal.
Power Amp Modeling engaged, No Cab.
Even with stock settings, it sounds great.

Then copy that patch, add the Cab block, and flip through some of the Cabs (#103 is always a good starting point).
You will likely have to tweak a few things to get a similar tone to what you had out of your 2x12 cab.
 
Just touched most of the comments on here but figured I would add, check out Leon Todd’s video on YouTube of the IIC++ patch tips he posted. Follow his every tip and that patch will blow your freaking head off! If you’re playing through a real can just remember to turn the cab modelling off
 
There are a few replies here that are confusing the issue:
a) Solid State Amp does not color the tone (if it is half way decent amp).
b) Dialing in with Studio Monitors (with cab block) and then just disabling cab block when using the Bugera cab will NOT sound the same....I would not recommend this at all as a starting point.
c) There is no way to turn of the 'preamp' (which was stated Guitarus Rex's post)

If you have a solid state amp and a real guitar cab, then I would recommend one patch for recording (assuming you're going direct) and another patch for playing through your cab.

Start with your cab tone:
Try the 5153 Red. It's a pretty easy amp to dial for metal.
Power Amp Modeling engaged, No Cab.
Even with stock settings, it sounds great.

Then copy that patch, add the Cab block, and flip through some of the Cabs (#103 is always a good starting point).
You will likely have to tweak a few things to get a similar tone to what you had out of your 2x12 cab.
yeah I think he meant power amp modeling, either way it shouldn't be turned off with SS amp.
 
I know right, it’s time to bite the bullet on monitors. So your suggesting that I ditch the cab and just use monitors instead? The only issue with that is I have no idea what it will sound like until I make that purchase.

And no, I have a pair of Shure SE215’s that I use when “mixing” and I say that word generously.

So should I not have a cab block on the patch when using my cab in my room? Are you saying that is only used with monitors?

TURN THE CAB BLOCKS OFF!!!

Yes, those only should be used with monitors. It will sound like garbage if you don't.
 
Thank you all so much here is my update for the day!

I started a new patch, and tried dialing in a tone without the cab clock using my poweramp/cab setup. And ive simply come to the conclusion that my cab is awful. The only way any patch sounds good to me though my bugera is with a cab block in the patch. Without the cab block, every amp sounds pretty bad. So I assume I should pick up a new 2x12 and that will fix the issue? Im using a bugera 2x12 and it is 150$ off sweetwater new. Seems kinda weird to run the AXE through something so bad.

Is anyone else having the problem that is only sounds good with a cab block?
 
Couple of EVM-12ls ...... costly, seemingly overpowered, and heavy .... but they are really friendly to listen to.
 
Does it still sound bad when you use a factory preset without the cab block?

Do you have any of the global EQ settings engaged?

I know Bugeras aren’t the best in the world but, I would think it would be doable?

Can you maybe record a bit with your phone and upload to here or SoundCloud?
 
Does it still sound bad when you use a factory preset without the cab block?

Do you have any of the global EQ settings engaged?

I know Bugeras aren’t the best in the world but, I would think it would be doable?

Can you maybe record a bit with your phone and upload to here or SoundCloud?
Tried uploading, files too big. And no global EQ enganged. And yeah factory settings
 
Mesa Boogie makes some great 2x12 cabs. A Marshall 1936 cab is pretty nice and they’ll work in mono or stereo.
 
I went frfr with a Yamaha dxr10 powered wedge. It doubles as my personal monitor when playing shows and I use it just playing around the house with great results. When recording, I just go direct. Anyway, that’s how I like to do it.

I can’t speak from experience on using a power amp and cab so, I’ll let someone who does advise you on that front. I will say that when I used analog amps, I never was happy with my metal style tone using 2x12s. I always ended up with a 4x12 recording and live. This is also true with the modelers. The only IRs that I like for metal that are 2x12 are Bulb’s Zilla pack. Other than that, it’s 4x12 cab every time. So, it may be that your looking for a tone that only a 4x12 can produce.
 
Thank you all so much here is my update for the day!

I started a new patch, and tried dialing in a tone without the cab clock using my poweramp/cab setup. And ive simply come to the conclusion that my cab is awful. The only way any patch sounds good to me though my bugera is with a cab block in the patch. Without the cab block, every amp sounds pretty bad. So I assume I should pick up a new 2x12 and that will fix the issue? Im using a bugera 2x12 and it is 150$ off sweetwater new. Seems kinda weird to run the AXE through something so bad.

Is anyone else having the problem that is only sounds good with a cab block?

I doubt your cab is so bad it is unusable. I have always found using a real guitar cab to be more figity in the tweaking, but it can sound good. Repeating others, you do not use a cab block when using an actual guitar cab. You need to clear the entire preset, except for an amp block. Reset the block to get back to default settings. Start tweaking from there. I usually tend to find I have to cut a ton of mids when using guitar cabs. Use the Graphic EQ page in the amp block to do this. Use the cut switch instead of a Drive block to tighten up the sound.
 
Thank you all so much here is my update for the day!

I started a new patch, and tried dialing in a tone without the cab clock using my poweramp/cab setup. And ive simply come to the conclusion that my cab is awful. The only way any patch sounds good to me though my bugera is with a cab block in the patch. Without the cab block, every amp sounds pretty bad. So I assume I should pick up a new 2x12 and that will fix the issue? Im using a bugera 2x12 and it is 150$ off sweetwater new. Seems kinda weird to run the AXE through something so bad.

Is anyone else having the problem that is only sounds good with a cab block?
Xitone cab works great or QSCk12...I have a lot of "conventional" guitar cabs and then can be tricky to dial in with room. The powered monitors are very consistent from place to place and your sound will be accurate in the studio and live...to a point..
 
Thank you all so much here is my update for the day!

I started a new patch, and tried dialing in a tone without the cab clock using my poweramp/cab setup. And ive simply come to the conclusion that my cab is awful. The only way any patch sounds good to me though my bugera is with a cab block in the patch. Without the cab block, every amp sounds pretty bad. So I assume I should pick up a new 2x12 and that will fix the issue? Im using a bugera 2x12 and it is 150$ off sweetwater new. Seems kinda weird to run the AXE through something so bad.

Is anyone else having the problem that is only sounds good with a cab block?
What about it don't you like?
 
What about it don't you like?
Its more of a consistency thing for me...I play many venues from big to huge to small and I like my tone to be consistent as much as possible...the guitar cab always seems to put a wild card in the guitar sound and I don't like that so much...The Xitone cabs can be made FRFR, GRFR or just straight cab and you can bounce between the three settings...talk with @MicFarlow
 
Its more of a consistency thing for me...I play many venues from big to huge to small and I like my tone to be consistent as much as possible...the guitar cab always seems to put a wild card in the guitar sound and I don't like that so much...The Xitone cabs can be made FRFR, GRFR or just straight cab and you can bounce between the three settings...talk with @MicFarlow
I think @Brownmatthall 's question was directed at someone else. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom