Helix and the Law of unintended consequences!

Dealmaker

Inspired
So I had the Helix for a few weeks and tried it hoping it could be an all in one floor mount "quick gig" solution....for those sort of multi-band gigs where you have limited set up and tear-down time.

I persevered with it for a couple of weeks - but it simply wasn't for me - couldn't get the tones I wanted or liked, though it was a bit fizzy, didn't like the installed delays or lack of modulated delays, didn't like the integrated expression pedal (I like sprung pedals with auto-engage) and I thought it was badly executed in places......so long story short it went back...and I will wait for my AX8.

So back to the AXE FXII - OH.....MY......GOD!!!.......you forget what sublime tones this unit can make! I was playing until 2am last night - and I have discovered and re-disovered a load of amazing presets and tones....as well as downloading some fantastic presets from the Axe-Change. When you get used to a unit and have it set up for your usual gigs and sets - then you become complacent, you sometimes cease exploring and seeing what the AXE is capable of.......I realised that I haven't even been scratching the surface of the FXII's capabilities....and it took two weeks with the Helix to make me realise this! Thank you Line 6!!! and a big thanks to Cliff for making such an awesome unit. If the AX8 makes the exact same tones then its a sure fire winner for me - and I will have the ultimate package of solutions with the FXII for home, practice, messing about and making tones, as well as larger gigs, and the AX8 for delivering them at smaller gigs!
 
It has been funny watching it all play out ever since the original Helix announcement and teaser pics. I can probably speak for the entire forum when I say "called it!"

Thanks for the insight and honest opinion man :) Glad to hear you are back enjoying your Fractal!
 
I must admit when I saw it I thought it "looked" really nice, but after lots of reviews there was nothing that made me want it, shame I wanted to like it, so after years of waiting (and longing) It was my final push to get the Axe Fx, Eleven Rack gone, Kemper gone, hello sublime tones.
 
"called it!"
I wonder if there are/will be people who get back to the helix after trying the Axe FX ...
If there are, this isn't that much of a "Called it" situation.
 
I recall a post from a Line6 employee on this forum explaining that they were all huge FAS fans, and competing with the likes of FAS just "wasn't in their wheelhouse". However, what happens when FAS moves in on their target market with FX8 & AX8? Well, the Helix happened, and maybe it isn't a contest as such, each company is just doing their thing. The upshot is, we as consumers have never had it so good. How relatively little we have to spent nowadays to achieve a good sound. Amazing.
 
Yes, well said.
I always felt that Line 6 were more the middle ground, not the cheap stuff but not the high end. I think the Helix pricing is changing this. I'm NOT saying they're polishing a turd, as I know how much those displays and a tank like construction costs. But I don't know how much impact they can make on the Kemper / Axe FX market, as those consumer tend to have a more 'refined' ear and aren't necessarily as easily 'wowed' by a flashy look. IMHO
 
Yes, well said.
I always felt that Line 6 were more the middle ground, not the cheap stuff but not the high end. I think the Helix pricing is changing this. I'm NOT saying they're polishing a turd, as I know how much those displays and a tank like construction costs. But I don't know how much impact they can make on the Kemper / Axe FX market, as those consumer tend to have a more 'refined' ear and aren't necessarily as easily 'wowed' by a flashy look. IMHO


After 5 years development , the amount of bugs ,I personally think they are over price ,they can charge what they want but that Product out
of the gate made 100% overseas $1500 is not a price point they should be IMO.
 
FWIW, I've owned the Helix, Kemper, and Axe-FX XL+
There are things I like about all three... but I kept the Axe-FX XL+

The build quality of the Helix is actually pretty good.
The UI (IMO) is particularly good.
Helix is a major step forward for Line-6... but (IMO) the Amp/Cab realism isn't quite to the level of Axe/Kemper

I know some folks don't care for it, but I like the (small/light) form-factor of the Kemper toaster.
It fits nicely on an amp-stand... and it's quick/easy to tweak playing live.
The Kemper is limited compared to the Axe... but the UI is simple.

The Axe is deep compared to the Kemper or Helix.
Helix doesn't have the amount of "deep editing" parameters.
Kemper is more of a "snap-shot" of a particular mic'd amp/cab... with parameters to tweak that snap-shot.
The Axe has so many more options to present, it's hard to distill that in a super simple way.
I've not spent as much time with the Axe (and I'm sure that plays into it), but I find editing slightly more tedious.

All these things aside, my guitar tone has never sounded better.
Piezo equipped electric sounds dangerously close to a real acoustic.
Crunch tones are full, dynamic, articulate... and have a nice balanced sound.
I was able to dial up an Ampeg SVT bass rig (with parallel high-passed distortion - a la Chris Squire/Geddy Lee) in just a couple minutes.
 
I own both -- the AxeFX II, and the Helix. Agree that the Helix doesn't *quite* match the AxeFX in terms of tone, but for the gigging guitarist who needs a stage tool rather than a studio one, the trade-off is worth it for one simple reason: USER INTERFACE. I'm not a complete idiot, but in 4 years of owning an AxeFX, I barely managed to scratch the surface of what it can do--because it's impenetrable. Some of you are probably very technically minded, and that's great. AxeFX is an astounding tool for you. But I can say truthfully that I am already sounding WAY better live with the Helix than I ever did with the AxeFX, and it all boils down to how easy the thing is to use.

That being said, now that Helix has taught me a thing or two about signal path design, I'm tempted to go back into my AxeFX and see what I can do...but the ease-of-use case for Helix can't be overstated. For $1500, I have a powerful signal processor that--while it might not meet the high standards of the Axe community--fools a LOT of people into thinking it's a tube amp, and a remarkably intuitive control center for my entire rig. AxeFX demands $2k+ just for the box...and then, if you dare to use a controller other than Fractal's...bad times abound.

Like I said, I'm sure the engineers here can manage in the live setting with the AxeFX. But even given the [modest] tradeoff in sound...I doubt I'll go back.
 
I own both -- the AxeFX II, and the Helix. Agree that the Helix doesn't *quite* match the AxeFX in terms of tone, but for the gigging guitarist who needs a stage tool rather than a studio one, the trade-off is worth it for one simple reason: USER INTERFACE. I'm not a complete idiot, but in 4 years of owning an AxeFX, I barely managed to scratch the surface of what it can do--because it's impenetrable. Some of you are probably very technically minded, and that's great. AxeFX is an astounding tool for you. But I can say truthfully that I am already sounding WAY better live with the Helix than I ever did with the AxeFX, and it all boils down to how easy the thing is to use.

That being said, now that Helix has taught me a thing or two about signal path design, I'm tempted to go back into my AxeFX and see what I can do...but the ease-of-use case for Helix can't be overstated. For $1500, I have a powerful signal processor that--while it might not meet the high standards of the Axe community--fools a LOT of people into thinking it's a tube amp, and a remarkably intuitive control center for my entire rig. AxeFX demands $2k+ just for the box...and then, if you dare to use a controller other than Fractal's...bad times abound.

Like I said, I'm sure the engineers here can manage in the live setting with the AxeFX. But even given the [modest] tradeoff in sound...I doubt I'll go back.

Gee I only had mine for not even 2 weeks now and I managed to make some half decent presets, learned how to use cabs, programmed the sequencer and synth, Made everything work with my FCB1010 controller, selecting scenes, using tuner, and syncing tempo with my DAW etc. etc. The hardest thing I have found is deciding what cabs and presets to use after downloading a pile of them.
And I am a high school drop out...LOL
 
I own both -- the AxeFX II, and the Helix. Agree that the Helix doesn't *quite* match the AxeFX in terms of tone, but for the gigging guitarist who needs a stage tool rather than a studio one, the trade-off is worth it for one simple reason: USER INTERFACE. I'm not a complete idiot, but in 4 years of owning an AxeFX, I barely managed to scratch the surface of what it can do--because it's impenetrable. Some of you are probably very technically minded, and that's great. AxeFX is an astounding tool for you. But I can say truthfully that I am already sounding WAY better live with the Helix than I ever did with the AxeFX, and it all boils down to how easy the thing is to use.

That being said, now that Helix has taught me a thing or two about signal path design, I'm tempted to go back into my AxeFX and see what I can do...but the ease-of-use case for Helix can't be overstated. For $1500, I have a powerful signal processor that--while it might not meet the high standards of the Axe community--fools a LOT of people into thinking it's a tube amp, and a remarkably intuitive control center for my entire rig. AxeFX demands $2k+ just for the box...and then, if you dare to use a controller other than Fractal's...bad times abound.

Like I said, I'm sure the engineers here can manage in the live setting with the AxeFX. But even given the [modest] tradeoff in sound...I doubt I'll go back.

Impenetrable? I highly disagree: Axe put all the little nuances in the palm of your hand.
Ehm...why are you copy/pasting this exact comment in another helix topic?
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/line-6-helix.103366/page-2#post-1271623
I'm not saying you're an employee of line6...
If you were you would have put your affiliation in the signature
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/affiliations.102186/
 
I own both -- the AxeFX II, and the Helix. Agree that the Helix doesn't *quite* match the AxeFX in terms of tone, but for the gigging guitarist who needs a stage tool rather than a studio one, the trade-off is worth it for one simple reason: USER INTERFACE. I'm not a complete idiot, but in 4 years of owning an AxeFX, I barely managed to scratch the surface of what it can do--because it's impenetrable. Some of you are probably very technically minded, and that's great. AxeFX is an astounding tool for you. But I can say truthfully that I am already sounding WAY better live with the Helix than I ever did with the AxeFX, and it all boils down to how easy the thing is to use.

That being said, now that Helix has taught me a thing or two about signal path design, I'm tempted to go back into my AxeFX and see what I can do...but the ease-of-use case for Helix can't be overstated. For $1500, I have a powerful signal processor that--while it might not meet the high standards of the Axe community--fools a LOT of people into thinking it's a tube amp, and a remarkably intuitive control center for my entire rig. AxeFX demands $2k+ just for the box...and then, if you dare to use a controller other than Fractal's...bad times abound.

Like I said, I'm sure the engineers here can manage in the live setting with the AxeFX. But even given the [modest] tradeoff in sound...I doubt I'll go back.
I also currently have both. While the UI on the Helix is definitely easier to use, AxeEdit is much easier to use than the Helix UI. Furthermore some things are downright clunky on the Helix UI like rearranging effects if there is not an open space and moving things to path 2. After a month with Helix i've found some good tones, but nothing as good as the Axe's tones. The best tones I can get out of the Axe are sublime, the best tones I can get out of the Helix are good to maybe very good. I personally never adjust anything at a gig except for global EQ so the Axe's UI is of minimal impact in that environment. Personally, the Helix is getting returned. The compromise in tone is not worth it for a pretty UI. Although I will really miss the scribble strips and a few other cool features. The AX8 looks like a much better compromise to me.
 
FYI: Modulated Delays:
  • Mod/Chorus Echo
  • Sweep Echo
  • Transistor Tape
  • Adriatic Delay
  • Elephant Man
  • Multitap 4
All of those have modulation.
I really like some the delays on the Helix. I would actually like to duplicate the Adriatic and Elephant Man delays on the Axe, but I'm not sure how to do it.
 
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