Wah clipping on cleans

BrickGlass

BrickGlass

Inspired
So I've noticed that on some of my clean presets, the wah, when rocked all the way forward, will cause the out 1 clip to the hit the red and the sound will distort a bit. Typical crackly sound when clipping occurs. I'm using the Clyde or the Cry Babe on cleans. Using a Mission pedal. On distorted or lead tones I typically go with the Color-Tone or Mortal and they never hit the red on out 1 clip, even if I strum hard. All my presets are leveled using the VU meter in the utility menu. When in the utility menu the Color Tone and Mortal don't really go past the line in the VU meter. They hit pretty much exactly where it does with the wah off. However, with the Clyde and Cry Babe it goes WAAAY beyond the VU line when the pedal is forward. Is there any particular parameter in the wah block that helps this? Frequency Max? Drive? I've messed around with them but nothing seems to help...except the level in the block. If I lower the level to around -9db then it works ok and goes to roughly the line in the VU meter. I seem to lose a decent amount of volume when I lower it that far though, at least perceived volume. I'm on the latest firmware and am aware of the recent wah changes.
 
That's normal, happens with regular wahs too, with a clean amp.

The wahs in the latest firmware have their levels matched to the real pedals.

The reason that Clyde and Crybaby do this more than other types, might be that these types cover higher frequencies. Or just have a high output.
Lowering Max Frequency may help. But then the model is not like the real pedal anymore.
 
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Turn all your other levels down to match the clean level that you set with the meter, this will get you close but in the end USE YOUR EARS! clean sound levels hit the meters harder!.
You can always turn up your end output 1 or out 2 levels to bring your overall level up
 
i always put a compressor in after the wah, if i'm using one with a clean amp. use a high ratio with a fast attack time, but also a fairly high threshold, so that it just catches the peaks. not necessary with driven amps, as they are already compressed
 
I've always had this issue with the wahs in the box.

@simeon I need to try a compressor / limiter block. I've put the wah in a parallel route to work around this. I think I nicked that from one of @Scott Peterson 's tips.

My three real wah's don't seem to do this when used in front of the Fractal. I've got a vintage Thomas Organ Co. Wah, vintage Crybaby with Germanium Fuzz, Morely Bad Horsey.
 
BrickGlass said:
Don't you ideally want the amp level to be set according to the VU meter though so that your presets have a somewhat consistent volume?
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I think that adjusting your overall output levels across your presets is the way to go, but I'll offer up a couple alternatives that might work for you.

[edit: should have guessed that @simeon would beat me to this.LOL]
Do you have room on your signal layout to add a post-Wah compressor (limiter, actually)? You could use the Multiband comp, disable the low and mid band, and tune the mid/high crossover point (and other high band comp settings) so that it clamps down on this momentary spike. The vast majority of your sound won't be touched, and it is important to only limit as much as is necessary to keep this narrow frequency range in check.

Another, IMO better, method would be to attach a control modifier to the output level of the Wah (or any Level parameter, such as Amp level) and adjust the modifier's curve so that it slightly dips the output when the exp pedal approaches full toe-down.

Just a couple thoughts.
 
As was said, anything that modifies the output level as the expression pedal hits toe down is going to not sound like the original pedal. And the real pedal is probably going to push a real amp into overdrive if the input level is high enough. So turn the input drive down on the amp so that the wah won't push it into distortion.

As for digital output clipping, you need to set the output levels low enough so that the wah output won't clip. Then balance all of your other outputs for other scenes and blocks down to match it. Then turn the output knob up a bit so that the actual volume is back to where it was before.
 
StickMan said:
As was said, anything that modifies the output level as the expression pedal hits toe down is going to not sound like the original pedal. And the real pedal is probably going to push a real amp into overdrive if the input level is high enough. So turn the input drive down on the amp so that the wah won't push it into distortion.
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Of course. I'm not advocating for ignoring good form in paying attention to gain staging, but also see no reason why a user shouldn't also consider other methods or customizations that may (or may not) work well for them. Fractal products are a great platform for those types of "virtual" customizations. But you are correct if the ultimate goal is dead-accurate emulation of the characteristics of the original pedal/amp behavior. This may not be quite so sacred to everyone, though.
 
jimfist said:
Of course. I'm not advocating for ignoring good form in paying attention to gain staging, but also see no reason why a user shouldn't also consider other methods or customizations that may (or may not) work well for them. Fractal products are a great platform for those types of "virtual" customizations. But you are correct if the ultimate goal is dead-accurate emulation of the characteristics of the original pedal/amp behavior. This may not be quite so sacred to everyone, though.
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Last night I was playing around after reading this thread, and took a recommendation from another thread where @Admin M@ had suggested trying things you wouldn't necessarily do in the real world or that that might not be possible... I put the wah block after the amp block and it actually didn't sound bad... And it eliminated the issue of over driving the amp.
 
unix-guy said:
Last night I was playing around after reading this thread, and took a recommendation from another thread where @Admin M@ had suggested trying things you wouldn't necessarily do in the real world or that that might not be possible... I put the wah block after the amp block and it actually didn't sound bad... And it eliminated the issue of over driving the amp.
Click to expand...

There you go! Case in point. If anything, multi-fx modelers of this caliber almost beg a lot of users to consider outside-the-box thinking, if for no other reason then to solve problems that otherwise might not be possible (or perhaps possible, but very time-consuming and/or expensive) in the real world.
 
I certainly have no problem with some outside-the -box experiments. Using the modeled pedals in their most "authentic" state is certainly cool, and it is unbelievable how accurate things sound now, but I feel like one of the advantages of going with an AxeFx is the ability to try things that aren't possible when using the real deal.

I still haven't decided which route I'm going to go to address the problem, but thanks for all the replies.
 
BrickGlass said:
I certainly have no problem with some outside-the -box experiments. Using the modeled pedals in their most "authentic" state is certainly cool, and it is unbelievable how accurate things sound now, but I feel like one of the advantages of going with an AxeFx is the ability to try things that aren't possible when using the real deal.

I still haven't decided which route I'm going to go to address the problem, but thanks for all the replies.
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A typical wah has a gain of around 16 dB but it's a bandpass (sort of) response. If your amp is set clean then the output of the amp block will increase by 16 dB when the wah is engaged. Most amps have a response that rises with frequency response. So if the output of the amp block without the wah engaged was, say, 12 dB below full-scale at the high frequencies, it will will be 4 dB over full-scale when the wah is engaged. Therefore it will clip the output. The solution is quite simple: lower the Level in the amp block by 4 dB.

IOW, reduce the Level in the Amp block until the clip light goes off. It's not that complicated.
 
I typically assign the same controller used for the center frequency of the bandpass filter to knock down the output level of the Wah, to take the edge off the volume spike. 0db in heal down position, -9db in toe-down position is my usual starting point.
 
Hello!
A fairly new AX8 user here. I'm still pretty confused by the many things that this unit can do and in this case I still can't figure my way around getting the clean wah without clipping. Could someone please share a preset with clean wah. It will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance!
 
Andy Don said:
Hello!
A fairly new AX8 user here. I'm still pretty confused by the many things that this unit can do and in this case I still can't figure my way around getting the clean wah without clipping. Could someone please share a preset with clean wah. It will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance!
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Before the wah is used, where is your preset metering on the VU meter?
 
fisioaura said:
I remember this same topic about 8 years ago...
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Comes up regularly....I think many of us struggle with the wah blocks various parameters and choices...that would be a great topic for one of our more savvy Youtubers (hi Leon @2112 ) to focus and go deep on...or has it already been done?...
 
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try turning the wah output level down

if you don't like the sound of that, put a compressor after the wah, with a high ratio and a very fast attack. watch the meter inside the comp block to gauge what the threshold needs to be
 
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