Ax8 DI recording question (SOLVED)

Danny Danzi

Danny Danzi

Power User
Are any of you using output 2 set for echo/input 1?

For some reason, I can't get the same DI sound out of this as I do the DI out of my XL+. The signal is always a little hotter using the AX8.

The XL+ signal comes in at -12dB religiously. So I've done my best to get the AX8 signal to that level as well. I've even normalized it to make sure it's never hotter than -12dB. I'm getting a noisier signal using the AX8 DI than the XL+. Does anyone have any tips or tricks for this? It's really weird. My wave forms look close, yet I'm getting noise out of one and barely on the other.

I've checked for things being driven through my console etc and everything looks great...nothing is being driven.

I just lowered my pad on the AX8 to 6dB as opposed to 0 and this helped quite a bit. But there is still some noise going on. Right now I got no pre-amps from my console, fader at unity gain and out 2 at 12 o'clock. Signal is hitting about -14.5 dB. Not understanding what is making me have noise while going into the XL+ to reamp as opposed to creating the signal FROM the XL+ DI. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
 
I regularly use output 2 /echo/input 1 on both Ax8 and XL as well, and notice the same thing..I wish I had a solution for you, but at least you know you're not alone...I use it for using other modelers and UAD Tweed Plugin in tandem with FAS gear, and have done so for a while, it seems to have become more noticeable on Ax8 in recent firmwares, but that could just be my misperceptions, find myself using theOUT 2 Volume control to reduce level...but still seems hot compared to XL.....
 
bradlake said:
I regularly use output 2 /echo/input 1 on both Ax8 and XL as well, and notice the same thing..I wish I had a solution for you, but at least you know you're not alone...I use it for using other modelers and UAD Tweed Plugin in tandem with FAS gear, and have done so for a while, it seems to have become more noticeable on Ax8 in recent firmwares, but that could just be my misperceptions, find myself using theOUT 2 Volume control to reduce level...but still seems hot compared to XL.....
Click to expand...

Thanks....yeah, at least I'm not alone. I'm gonna look into this a little deeper. There has to be a reason why this is happening. I've reduced volume as well. I still get a nasty hiss, yet the wave forms look nearly identical. I'm gonna tap a few resources. If I hear anything, I'll let post back.
 
I am not sure, I quite understand,what you do.

When I record with Ax8, I use the FX loop block to get a DI track. I send a completely unprocessed signal and the dry amp tone to the FX loop and into my interface/DAW on two separate channels. Then I send wet FX to the main outs, and they get recorded on a stereo track in the DAW.

I am not 100% sure about the levels, but it is not coming in too hot, and I don't hear added noise.

Try a 12 dB pad. Your pickups look fairly hot, so 12 dB might be needed rather than 6 dB
 
Smittefar said:
I am not sure, I quite understand,what you do.

When I record with Ax8, I use the FX loop block to get a DI track. I send a completely unprocessed signal and the dry amp tone to the FX loop and into my interface/DAW on two separate channels. Then I send wet FX to the main outs, and they get recorded on a stereo track in the DAW.

I am not 100% sure about the levels, but it is not coming in too hot, and I don't hear added noise.

Try a 12 dB pad. Your pickups look fairly hot, so 12 dB might be needed rather than 6 dB
Click to expand...

OK wait, are you saying fx loop block as in a physical block in your preset? If you wouldn't mind breaking down what you do a little more in depth, I'd greatly appreciate it. Here's what I'm doing....maybe you can tell me where I'm going wrong?

My two XLR outs are connected to 2 channels on my mixing console. Those are my wet processed signals in stereo.

Next I take out 2 from the AX8 and have the echo set for input 1. If I've read the manual correctly, that should give me a raw, unprocessed track. It does, so I send that to another channel in my console.

So I have two stereo wet processed channels that come into my DAW at -6dB exactly the way I want them, and one raw, unprocessed, clean track going to a channel in my console mono that is hitting about -14.5dB.

I chose that setting due to my XL+ sending it's digital out by default to -12dB. My spdif signal also defaults to -12dB....so again, these are the reasons I chose the level I chose for my DI in my AX8.

However, -12dB seemed to bring in a little too much noise in the AX8 so I reduced the level to -14.5 and it seemed a little better but is still noisy when compared to the DI the XL+ auto creates.

The files created look nearly identical.....yet the XL+ DI is drastically lower in noise yet has a hotter level when reamping. It doesn't make sense.

So you're saying to put an fx block in my preset somewhere? If so, can you tell me where it would go in the chain as well as how to set any settings? I'm totally clueless with this DI stuff other than how I use it via SPDIF which is absolutely perfect every time.

Thanks in advance if you can help. :)
 
Hi Danny, I'll love to help, if I can

Here is a screen shot of one of my recording presets

Screenshot%202016-04-16%2015.23.57.png


Inside the FX loop, Row 1 is panned hard left, and row 2 is panned hard right, so the left channel is a completely unprocessed signal, and the right channel is my dry (mono) amp tone. Both reverb and delay are 100% wet and go to the main outs. I record all four outputs; DI, Dry, Wet L, Wet R.

I have never tried using this for reamping, so I don't even know, how well the DI track will work. But I guess, I would use the FX loop input, and move the FX loop block to the beginning of the chain.

I think, it almost eliminates my need to re-amp,when I can adjust the FX level right in the mix (since the wet FX are on separate channels).

Of course, if you are using more complicated sounds (maybe with a HAAS effect), where the 'dry' amp tone is really stereo, it is difficult to capture everything with this setup, so I have had to vary my approach for some of the more complicated tones.
 
Smittefar said:
Hi Danny, I'll love to help, if I can

Here is a screen shot of one of my recording presets

Screenshot%202016-04-16%2015.23.57.png


Inside the FX loop, Row 1 is panned hard left, and row 2 is panned hard right, so the left channel is a completely unprocessed signal, and the right channel is my dry (mono) amp tone. Both reverb and delay are 100% wet and go to the main outs. I record all four outputs; DI, Dry, Wet L, Wet R.

I have never tried using this for reamping, so I don't even know, how well the DI track will work. But I guess, I would use the FX loop input, and move the FX loop block to the beginning of the chain.

I think, it almost eliminates my need to re-amp,when I can adjust the FX level right in the mix (since the wet FX are on separate channels).

Of course, if you are using more complicated sounds (maybe with a HAAS effect), where the 'dry' amp tone is really stereo, it is difficult to capture everything with this setup, so I have had to vary my approach for some of the more complicated tones.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your time and the advice. I'll mess around with that and see how I make out with it. Much appreciated.....I'll let you know how it worked. :)
 
I believe I read somewhere that the AX8 doesn´t have the same extreme low noise floor that the XL+ has, in order to reduce the price. The AX8 is not meant to be a recording device in the first place. Somebody correct me if I´m wrong please.
 
Another thing, I read but never tried.

When you 're-amp, you should use the FX loop input, and It should be set to +4dBu signal level. That should take care of the impedance mismatch of a DAW output going into a guitar amp input (as the main input is)
 
gitfruit said:
I believe I read somewhere that the AX8 doesn´t have the same extreme low noise floor that the XL+ has, in order to reduce the price. The AX8 is not meant to be a recording device in the first place. Somebody correct me if I´m wrong please.
Click to expand...
It doesn't mean it's crazy noisy either. I've recorded and performed with it many times with no noise.
 
Smittefar said:
Hi Danny, I'll love to help, if I can

Here is a screen shot of one of my recording presets

Screenshot%202016-04-16%2015.23.57.png


Inside the FX loop, Row 1 is panned hard left, and row 2 is panned hard right, so the left channel is a completely unprocessed signal, and the right channel is my dry (mono) amp tone. Both reverb and delay are 100% wet and go to the main outs. I record all four outputs; DI, Dry, Wet L, Wet R.

I have never tried using this for reamping, so I don't even know, how well the DI track will work. But I guess, I would use the FX loop input, and move the FX loop block to the beginning of the chain.

I think, it almost eliminates my need to re-amp,when I can adjust the FX level right in the mix (since the wet FX are on separate channels).

Of course, if you are using more complicated sounds (maybe with a HAAS effect), where the 'dry' amp tone is really stereo, it is difficult to capture everything with this setup, so I have had to vary my approach for some of the more complicated tones.
Click to expand...

Man, this should be a sticky topic, so you don't have to post it again and again :)
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
It doesn't mean it's crazy noisy either. I've recorded and performed with it many times with no noise.
Click to expand...

Chris do you do it the same way Smittefar explained to me?

Just curious what your take on this may be? I'm not sure an fx block needs to be used as the manual doesn't mention physically using one. I don't see how the fx loop block is going to totally fix me, but for sure I'll try it this afternoon. I may post up a video of what happens on my end in case anyone is confused by what I've been saying.

Smitte, I'm at +4 at all times. I'm going to try the 12dB pad thing. That may help me as well. I'm gonna figure this out!

Thanks for the help guys!
 
Danny Danzi said:
Chris do you do it the same way Smittefar explained to me?

Just curious what your take on this may be? I'm not sure an fx block needs to be used as the manual doesn't mention physically using one. I don't see how the fx loop block is going to totally fix me, but for sure I'll try it this afternoon. I may post up a video of what happens on my end in case anyone is confused by what I've been saying.

Smitte, I'm at +4 at all times. I'm going to try the 12dB pad thing. That may help me as well. I'm gonna figure this out!

Thanks for the help guys!
Click to expand...
i don't need the dry, so i just take Out 1 full mix.

i was just commenting on how sometimes people think the "not lowest noise floor ever" means crazy noise is just spewing out of the unit making it unusable. i see the same thought in the discussion of balanced vs unbalanced cables. many think that unbalanced cables are "noisy" and therefore absolutely unusable. if they would just try it though, they'd hear nothing wrong at all :)
 
When you set Out2 to echo Out1, you're telling the unit to take your processed signal (the signal that's going to Out1) and also send it to Out2.

But...

When you have an FX Loop in your preset, you're overriding that echo and sending the FX Loop signal to Out2 instead.
 
Rex said:
When you set Out2 to echo Out1, you're telling the unit to take your processed signal (the signal that's going to Out1) and also send it to Out2.

But...

When you have an FX Loop in your preset, you're overriding that echo and sending the FX Loop signal to Out2 instead.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we where talking about Echo INPUT 1 and not OUTPUT 1 into out 2
 
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Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
i don't need the dry, so i just take Out 1 full mix.

i was just commenting on how sometimes people think the "not lowest noise floor ever" means crazy noise is just spewing out of the unit making it unusable. i see the same thought in the discussion of balanced vs unbalanced cables. many think that unbalanced cables are "noisy" and therefore absolutely unusable. if they would just try it though, they'd hear nothing wrong at all :)
Click to expand...

Compared to what I get when I use the DI from the XL+ or my SPDIF set-up, this IS crazy noise, Chris. To me, this is unusable like it is. I'm going to create a video so you can see and hear what I'm doing. This is one time I will bow down and accept being smacked for doing something wrong. LOL!! I should have time free in about 20 minutes. :)
 
You're trying to compare the (pristine) digital output of the Axe-Fx to the analog output of the AX-8 with a really low-level signal (the echoed input signal). Since the level is so low the self-noise of the output and your console will dominate (probably the console).

The first thing to do is to set Output 2 Boost/Pad to 12 dB. That should reduce the noise considerably. Ideally you would use the SPDIF output for this as it won't add noise but I don't believe the firmware currently supports routing the Input to SPDIF.
 
I guess the FX loop block first in the chain will send a decent line level signal? if so, why not use that and use the same fx loop block to send it back in? will that alter the signal in anyway?
 
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