Showing up to gigs that expect you to use a backline with the AxeFx...

G

guitarman19853

Member
Just curious how you guys handle gigs that expect you to use their backline for the gig.

The requirement for this gig is that you use their cabs at least so that they don't have to re-mic. You can use your own head but must use their cabs.

Should I show up with the AxeFx and just tell them I am direct and need a line (or 2 if they'll let me run stereo) or should I bring a backup pedalboard with me to use with their backline? Or should I try and clear it with them ahead of time?

If I have to use their backline, I think I'd rather use my "rehearsal" pedalboard than try to make patches without amp modeling and hope they work with whatever amps are there...

We're a new band and feel honored to get into this festival so I don't want to make a fuss about anything that would piss someone off.

And it's not until July so I have some time...
 
I run into this exact scenario at festival gigs quite often.

My goal is to make their job easier and I tell them that first. They are often in 'production line mode' and don't want any sort of curve balls tossed at them. They are about getting one band off, one band up and doing an adequate mix on the fly for each set.

Here's what I do - I tell them that I am going to give them a direct feed direct into the snake. I ask that they flatten the EQ curve on the input channel. I ask to come direct off the Axe-FX at line level (very important fact to make them aware of). I have a DI box in case they cannot supply a DI box to take a line level and prefer to keep the guitar on a mic input channel strip input instead (happens sometimes depending on the madness of one band coming off stage and the quick setup for the next one). I then take my powered monitor from the Axe-FX and use it as I normally do, aimed back up at me from front of stage and feed them direct (I'll unplug the actual mic from the provided and mic'd up backline for them if necessary and if they cannot provide a DI box into the snake to FOH).

If done with polite manners and explained fully, it's never a problem. You get a level check, you'll hear "guitar?" play something, and then a pause for a second and off to the next instrument because it often doesn't need much if any tweak once levels are set.

Almost without fail, done this way, I can setup/teardown in about 5-6 minutes, have everything I need to do my thing at my level of satisfaction and have the sound guys very happy with me even though I am messing with their normal 'flow' of operation.
 
I've found that the staff at events such as this mainly want to avoid having to deal with a completely different amp/cab for every band. Some musicians are just plain slow to set up. In your case, they could simply unplug the mic and stick the mic cable in the Axe.

You can maximize your chances by coming prepared with a direct box with a pad just in case they can't work with a line level signal. Bringing an extension for the mic cable might help as well. Anything to eliminate any thinking or last-minute gear hunting on their part is a plus.

Whether or not you tell them in advance depends on if you can actually talk to the sound crew. If you are only talking to an event organizer, you probably won't get your message across.

I hate to say it, but I'd lean towards just showing up with the Axe and explaining in a very friendly way how easy it is to plug it in, provide them with a pad and cable if needed, and bring your backup rig as a SECRET contingency just in case they are unreceptive. They don't want surprises, but they might be more inclined to plug you in direct if you already have the gear and answers.

FWIW, I've been in exactly the same spot on several occasions. Sometimes, the crew was very helpful and would go out of their way to give me a stereo direct feed to the board. Other times, they seemed to hate life in general. Good luck.
 
We (eventually:) starting sending a stage plot ahead, with the microphone, ac outlet, DI, wedge mix, IEM mix requirements. We include the band name, technical contact phone number, day / time slot and which stage we are playing on for the festival. Then bring a couple of extra copies to the show since no one involved with the actual sound will have seen it the day of the show :)

Richard
 
Same as Scott; except I'm not as nice as him and don't have the patience. I don't tell them anything. Plonk my Axe-FX rack wherever, take the cable out of the mic (always a 57 or 58 ) and stick it in a passive DI box fed from the Axe. Going line level would be theoretically be better but I'm avoiding the slightest possibility of confusion. Stick the K12 on the floor behind me and spark up. 3 to 5 mins max. There is always a moment where the FOH guy puts the guitar fader up and wonders why it sound so bloody good! I live for that moment, makes me smile every time. At some point the monitor guy will notice that there is no cable going into the guitar mic but its usually too late.

I'm going to refine this method slightly for this summer by putting the DI connection on the front of the rack with a big label saying 'MIC Level Output'. This should ensure that absolutely no communication is required.

I was a professional live sound engineer for 12 years. I would rather gut myself live on stage than have to talk shop.
 
+ 1 to all of this great advice. I've been on both sides of this situation (musician and crew), and can confirm that all of these tips will (most likely) make the crew like you, and able to quickly accommodate your rig.

I'd just like to particularly emphasize the importance of bringing whatever small-but-important bits of gear might be needed. DI box, XLR cable, 1/4" to XLR-male cable, 1/4" to XLR-female cable. Two of each of those items if you're running stereo. A print out with a clear diagram or explanation of your set up. Might cost you $100 - $150, and worth every penny.

Whenever I've crewed a show in which a musician has "special needs", and that musician politely approaches me or someone else on the crew with an understanding of what we're trying to do, a clear explanation of what they need, and offers to provide their own bits and pieces to make it happen, word gets around the crew quickly: "The singer is a f--king tool, give him the in-ears that the intern had down his jock. But the guitar player is really nice. Make sure he is set up right."
 
Thanks for the tips! I never would've thought to need a DI. Come to think of it, I'll bet that the sound guy at my church has me running into a mic level input...
 
Can someone be more specific as the use for a DI box opposed going straight out of the XLR on the axe?
 
KyleUMF said:
Can someone be more specific as the use for a DI box opposed going straight out of the XLR on the axe?
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-- edited to correct factual errors --

It is because your sound jockey sometimes might prefer, or need, or believe he needs to work with a different type of audio signal than the Axe can provide.

In a live sound environment, between stage and the FOH and/or monitors consoles, one is generally having to manage audio signals with some different properties: mic vs. line level, balanced vs. unbalanced, and high vs. low impendance, and all the possible combinations of these.

Often, for various reasons, the sound person connects all or most sources from stage to the mic inputs on his console, whether or not they are mic signals to begin with. Sometimes, those mic inputs don't like to get hit with a line level input. Sometimes there are issues with needing to send a high impedance signal a long distance. Or a stage snake with only XLR inputs and you need your XLR outs for your FRFR wedge. Or the keyboard player taking up all available 1/4" inputs on the snake. Or for some unholy reason the stage snake only accepts unbalanced 1/4". Or anything else you can imagine.

So to repeat what I wrote above: because of any or all of those potential issues, your FOH jockey might prefer, or need, or believe he needs to send the nice balanced, line level signal coming out of the Axe into a DI box so that he can throw it across a venue, and/or feed a mic input on his console, and/or solve a problem that's only apparent at the other end of the snake, or... you name the problem. Could be anything.

I hope that's helpful! Apologies if I got any technical details wrong. Someone will surely correct me.
 
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KyleUMF said:
Can someone be more specific as the use for a DI box opposed going straight out of the XLR on the axe?
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Now I'm a bit confused, too. I run output 1 (Balanced XLR) to FOH and use output 2 for my monitor. I've never seen a reason to use a DI Box. If the sound board doesn't have a pad for the Mic input, I run into line with one of these http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Planet-Waves-XLR14-Adapter?sku=335209

246839.jpg
Seems to work for me. I've got a DI Box, but haven't ever used it.
 
Scott Peterson said:
I ask that they flatten the EQ curve on the input channel.
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Suppose they won't do this. Suppose they feel that they have each cab mic EQ'ed properly and don't want to have to change it for every act that hops up on stage. Have you ever dealt with a sound team that refused to change the EQ for you, or perhaps there simply wasn't time/opportunity to communicate/persuade this request, and you had to live with whatever EQ curve they put on your line? If so, how much does it typically mess up your tone? I realize it is only FOH (the audience) that is hearing it that way and not you (your stage monitor is fed directly from your AFX tweaked to your exact specs), but maybe someone in the audience told you how it sounded?
 
Gizmo said:
Now I'm a bit confused, too. I run output 1 (Balanced XLR) to FOH and use output 2 for my monitor. I've never seen a reason to use a DI Box. If the sound board doesn't have a pad for the Mic input, I run into line with one of these http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Planet-Waves-XLR14-Adapter?sku=335209

View attachment 4059
Seems to work for me. I've got a DI Box, but haven't ever used it.
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Depending on the stage and venue, the sound crew might need you to connect to the FOH board via a big snake. And the inputs for those huge snakes are often XLR (mic-type of connector) only. So even if you had the kind of cable you point out, you might not be able to run it to the 1/4" line input on the board.

Or even if you could send signal with that cable in your scenario (in which the mic inputs can't handle line level), the board might not have any available 1/4" line inputs.

Or it's quite possible that even if you did patch into the snake at the stage with no trouble, the engineer might have a problem with you sending him line level signal to his end.

Or any number of possible SNAFUs!

Summing up this and my previous post, I guess my point is: due to the many variables and potential technical issues of live sound, you might need to connect your Axe to the house system via a DI box. Even if you think the sound guy just doesn't understand (and that's happened to me). No big deal, just pack your own DI and roll with it!
 
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gendefect said:
Can folks recommend a good DI box, or the DI box you've used with success and is of acceptable quality?
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The Whirlwind IMP 2 is a live sound standard, and works fine. Radial makes really nice stuff like the ProDI, and it costs a bit more.
 
zslane said:
Suppose they won't do this. Suppose they feel that they have each cab mic EQ'ed properly and don't want to have to change it for every act that hops up on stage. Have you ever dealt with a sound team that refused to change the EQ for you, or perhaps there simply wasn't time/opportunity to communicate/persuade this request, and you had to live with whatever EQ curve they put on your line? If so, how much does it typically mess up your tone? I realize it is only FOH (the audience) that is hearing it that way and not you (your stage monitor is fed directly from your AFX tweaked to your exact specs), but maybe someone in the audience told you how it sounded?
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No huge issues yet. Remember, these festival gigs are 1 hour sets. It's not life or death for me. I get paid to play for an hour, whether or not the sound crew massacres the sound or it is a glorious mix. I don't sweat it. Most of the bigger festivals around here use good sound companies - it's not been an issue for me. I've gotten really nothing more than 100% positive feedback for over 3 years from the sound guys and the crowds alike.
 
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