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  1. M

    Power amp modelling work around ........

    Lol, so it's not just me who keeps one of the IEM danging out! I do switch them mid set so I get equal amount of hearing damage on each side. :D
  2. M

    Power amp modelling work around ........

    People are used to what they're used to - while more and more sound guys are open to technology and understand how to work with modeled guitar sounds, there are plenty who swear by good ol' SM57 into a guitar cab. I've been using digital gear since the early days of Line 6, and have had that...
  3. M

    Power amp modelling work around ........

    That sums up my philosophy as well. I've had way too many things go wrong at gigs - the simpler the setup, the less I have to think about the setup, the more I can focus on just playing. I keep my live presets simple, bring backups for everything, and I'm not gun-ho about having things setup...
  4. M

    Falling in love with Looper block!

    My old office/practice space/mancave is now my son's room, so my wife listens to me playing the same lick over and over...but without context since I'm playing through headphones. I don't think it's any better to be honest. Lol.
  5. M

    Falling in love with Looper block!

    Ha, story of my life. Unless I'm tweaking I'm always blasting via the headphones nowadays. On the upside, I've gotten really good at tweaking via headphones as a result (just have to remember which frequencies are more pronounced via headphones). I fine tune the patches when she's out of the...
  6. M

    Ready to take the plunge

    Haven't played with the looper too much, so I'll let others comment on that. But you can definitely get great classic/hard rock type of sounds out of the AX8. You can experiment on your own by selecting the appropriate amp blocks and cab blocks, or buy third party IRs for more cab options...
  7. M

    Ready to take the plunge

    I replaced my Axe FX II with AX8 - no regrets. To be honest, when I A/B the two I did notice slight tonal differences even with identical settings, but they're close enough as to not being a determining factor. The rack versions are definitely better if you expect to spend more time in the...
  8. M

    Using AX8 as a control pedalboard for AXE FXII or FXIII

    Probably doable but seems like an overkill. I don't play live as much these days, but back in the days if I really need a backup I'd stick a good amp-in-the-box type of pedal in my bag (like a Tech 21 type of box), a DI, and maybe a delay and call it a day - something simple, reliable, and...
  9. M

    Does your band run mono or stereo guitars live?

    If you anticipate a competent soundman and crew (i.e. if it's familiar venue, if you bring your own soundman, or a huge venue with elaborate setup etc), then you have more flexibility in what you can do. Otherwise, my philosophy with live shows has always been to keep things as simple as...
  10. M

    Replicated Axe FX II preset on AX8, but tone differs slightly. What am I missing?

    That does sound vaguely familiar but it's been some time. Seems plausible. Mike
  11. M

    Replicated Axe FX II preset on AX8, but tone differs slightly. What am I missing?

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I’ve tried the Fractool and end up with the same sounding preset, so it’s not that. Cab settings look the same too. The old preset was not using mic modeling. I’m using Ownhammer IR which has the mic baked in. Also not likely the impedance - the Axe FX II shows...
  12. M

    Replicated Axe FX II preset on AX8, but tone differs slightly. What am I missing?

    As title said, just picked up AX8 and am trying to match the preset. I did the block transfer via Axe Edit per the manual, and replicated the preset, but the AX8 version sounds a bit thinner and fuzzier for some reason (more fizz to and less body). Note that the difference is not night-and-day...
  13. M

    Saw Megadeth at the Warfield...

    Really couldn't tell - nothing but the drums and the backdrops are visible onstage. Quite a departure from the days of the 4x12 walls...
  14. M

    Saw Megadeth at the Warfield...

    Oh man, would've LOVED to see Marty. Chris is a great guitarist, but Marty is...Marty.
  15. M

    Saw Megadeth at the Warfield...

    That's a great story! Mike
  16. M

    Saw Megadeth at the Warfield...

    Good to know. Well, both units sounded fantastic! Mike
  17. M

    Axe-Fx II Sighting

    Not really a sighting as there were no amps onstage, but saw Megadeth at the Warfield, and I understand Dave uses Axe II exclusive on tour these days. The Axe sounded great next to (I believe) Boderick's JVM, and it was an excellent show all around. \m/ Mike
  18. M

    Saw Megadeth at the Warfield...

    Couldn't see any amps onstage, but I understand that Dave uses Axe II exclusively playing live these days. Great tone all around (I believe Boderick uses a JVM on tour), great show, and Dave can still bring it. \m/ Mike
  19. M

    So, I'm finally becoming an Axe-Fx 2 owner...

    Congrats on the new purchase! Sounds like you're on the right track. My advice would just be to continue to keep things simple: start with just amp block, pick an amp that you like or is common for the type of music you play, set basic amp controls at noon, leave advance parameters alone...and...
  20. M

    Last nights gig

    Those kinds of experiences are why I still bring amp/cab to live shows with my Axe - if the soundman is familiar with direct signals, I hand them the direct out with cab sim and use the cab for my own monitoring. But if the soundman is hellbent on mic'ing my cab, I pick my battles and let him...
  21. M

    First gig with the Axe, and it sounded terrible

    If going FRFR is too much of a change, as another option you can also try to run a cab-free signal thru a clean power amp a guitar cab - basically turns the Axe into an uber, multi-channel head. You can still send a direct feed with cab sim to FOH at the same time, for best-of-both-worlds...
  22. M

    First gig with the Axe, and it sounded terrible

    Let me rephrase: if you're coming from amp/cab background, what you're used to hear is not what the audience have been hearing this entire time. By going FRFR, you're now hearing what the audience hears, but it gets some getting used to.
  23. M

    First gig with the Axe, and it sounded terrible

    As others have said, it's likely one of two things: 1) something is wrong with your setup, or 2) setup is fine, and you're just not used to hearing mic'd sound. Years ago (pre-modeler days, and before I've done any serious recording), I remember showing up to a gig with my trusty DSL50 half...
  24. M

    FW 11. Maybe I'll wait.

    The BOT takes care of all the update/backup/restore now, and is super easy to use. The AE is primarily for editing patches, and if you're a front panel guy, you don't need to touch AE if you don't want to. I do all my editing via the front panel as well, and BOT is the only software I use. Mike
  25. M

    It's my Firmware 11, and I want it now!

    That's based on the assumption that Cliff actually sleeps at night. Mike
  26. M

    It's my Firmware 11, and I want it now!

    First thing I thought of when I read the subject line. :D
  27. M

    Guys that run 1 output to the PA, and another to a cabinet on stage, please enter

    That we can agreed on. Rock on y'alls. Mike
  28. M

    Guys that run 1 output to the PA, and another to a cabinet on stage, please enter

    I'm sorry, but what you had described is the definition of being closed minded. Being open minded mean to hear opinions from both sides and then make an informed decision, not by ignoring one side completely. If you have actually bothered to read the responses, you'd see that a lot of us are...
  29. M

    Guys that run 1 output to the PA, and another to a cabinet on stage, please enter

    I think you're over-thinking it a bit, to be honest. The Axe doesn't really have audible latency anywhere as far as I can tell, be it direct or thru a cab - that IS one of the selling points. It's really no different than mic'ing any regular cab and running it thru the PA, where the audience...
  30. M

    Guys that run 1 output to the PA, and another to a cabinet on stage, please enter

    I was not aware there's such a mafia, but note that nowhere in my comment did I say stereo doesn't work. It works under the right conditions, which is unfortunately more of an exception than the rule for the venues I've played in and not worth my time, but YMMV. Again, just something to think...
  31. M

    Guys that run 1 output to the PA, and another to a cabinet on stage, please enter

    Put the cab block towards the end. Just before the cab block, split the signal and send it to FX Loop block, which puts the cab-free signal to Output 2. Mike
  32. M

    Guys that run 1 output to the PA, and another to a cabinet on stage, please enter

    I've stopped worrying about stereo effects for live use. It sounds fantastic when it works...emphasis on when it works. If you play at the same venue often, and you know the venue has competent soundman and decent sound system - go for it. But I find that a lot of venues lack decent soundman...
  33. M

    Ease of using AxeFX VS. 11 Rack?

    I've had all three at different points in time. 11R is by far the easiest to use - you can pretty much pickup an 11R, spend 5 minutes poking around without a manual and be good to go. That said, the usability comes at the expense of flexibility (not many routing or editing options), and tone...
  34. M

    I need a new amp stand for the Axe Fx II

    One more vote for the Ultimate amp stand. I have one that I've used for years with various combos, and it works quite well with the Axe in a rack. The portability is really the best feature - fold it up, throw it into a duffle with your other accessories (cables/guitar stands/power strip/etc)...
  35. M

    Eleven Rack. HEAR ME OUT

    Did a show a couple of years ago in Sacramento, and we needed a substitute for our second guitar, who brought his 11R...but forgot his amp. My SLA2 ended up doing double duty and was driving one cab for my Ultra, and another (house cab) for his 11R. I have to say, his 11R didn't sound all that...
  36. M

    Any advice on relative levels?

    It's not just about the volume, but how well a certain sound cuts through a particular mix. Two patches may sound like they're of equal volume by themselves, but if one is, say, significantly more "scooped" compared to the other, that other one is going to appear much louder in the mix. The...
  37. M

    Are you tired of FRFR?

    Played quite a few shows with my Ultra with my old band, and flexibility really is one of the Axe FX's greatest strength. I run my rig like a traditional amp/cab setup, but I have direct outs ready to go with cab sims on. Problems with crappy PA and/or crappy soundman? Forget mic'ing or...
  38. M

    are there more Axe II>FRFR players or Axe II>poweramp>cab players?

    Should be a "both" option - amp/cab with a cab sim feed ready to go. Flexibility is a good thing, since you just never know what might happen at a given venue at any given night. Asked to share an amp with other bands? Flying somewhere and can't bring you amp/cab? Amp goes down or blows a...
  39. M

    Axe Fx II, National Anthem A's vs Giants

    If you haven't been to AT&T park, you should really try to catch a Giants game there as well - it's a GREAT ballpark. Mike
  40. M

    Axe Fx II, National Anthem A's vs Giants

    Ha, I was actually at the game, but couldn't see the rig from where I sat. Cool deal. :)
  41. M

    Cliff Please!!!

    This is not an Axe-FX issue. Get in the habit of turning off your gear in the proper order will serve you well in the long run, since most other audio gear does this as well - start with end of chain, then work backwards. When powering on, it's the reverse. If you're connected to FOH, just...
  42. M

    Presonus Studio One Artist 2 for just $20.12 during NAMM

    Producer or Professional? Producer is the next one up for another $99, and you do get the ability to natively import/export mp3's, as well as support for rewire/VST plugins. The Professional is the most expansive, and includes the mastering suite and such. Here's a comparison: Versions «...
  43. M

    Line6 annoucement

    Great concept, and looks well thought out. Very interesting indeed.
  44. M

    Presonus Studio One Artist 2 for just $20.12 during NAMM

    I have a copy along with my Presonus USB interface, and I would definitely recommend either the hardware or the Studio One without hesitation. The Studio One has a very intuitive, very cleanly laid out interface that I like a lot. It also loads up very quickly, takes up very little CPU on even...
  45. M

    Ultra vs. II head-to-head

    I had missed the older thread, and it's actually quite enlightening - appreciate the effort, Jay. Completely agree with the sentiment in your last post in that thread as well - it's easy to listen to two clips and debate which is "better" in a vacuum, but such minute differences largely...
  46. M

    Marshall 1936 Cabinet

    I use my Axe with an amp/cab for live shows for the "feel" onstage, but I also run a direct line with cab sim to the board for the mix. Best of both worlds, with added flexibility - if you can't go direct for whatever reason (soundman is prejudiced against digital gear; small stage with not...
  47. M

    Cheap Poweramp for Axe FX II and 2 1X12s?

    The SLA-2 is as loud as any 100 watt tube amps I've played, and hung just fine with our very, very hard hitting drummer. Haven't tried the SLA-1, but if it's rated at half the wattage, it's still going to be stupid loud. You'll do just fine. :)
  48. M

    What is a cheaper alternative to the Matrix?

    My two cents: There is nothing inherently wrong with a $2000+ preamp and a $300 poweramp, as long as it meets your needs - I've ran with the Axe and SLA2 for years, and couldn't have been happier. There's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to gear, and everyone draws the line...
  49. M

    Advice on hooking up Axe FX, power amp, and cab.

    I'd suggest mono and keeps things simple, at least to get you started - if it's just one 4x12 you're running, the speakers are too close together for any stereo effects to be noticeable anyway. The ART doesn't have 1/4" outs, as you've already noticed, so you have one of two options: 1) use a...
  50. M

    What amp/rack stands do u use with axe fx

    I have on occasion used the Ultimate Amp Stand with my old SKB 4U rack, and it worked very well. Best thing about those Ultimate stands is that they fold up into a bundle, and you can then toss them into a duffel bag for transport. Ultimate Support Genesis Amp Stand
  51. M

    ART SLA2 question (and other poweramp questions)

    I've been using the SLA2 into a 1960a cab since day one, and have played hundred of rehearsals and shows with it. It's done well by me.
  52. M

    Picking the best expression pedal for Axe Fx II (wah, delay, reverb,..)

    I really dig the EV-5. For something so inexpensive I wasn't expecting a whole lot at first, but it really works well.
  53. M

    rack bag recommendation

    I have a Gator 3U and it works well. The rubber feet in the back is very handy, since the whole thing can stand up on the floor with cables plugged in. Pouch is quite spacious as well. EDIT: typo.
  54. M

    Any upgrade options for recent purchasers?

    You guys have to realize that it's not so much the Ultra has been rendered "worthless" with the new announcement, but that we were spoiled by unusually high resale value of Standard/Ultra in the past, due to the limited supply vs. the demand. Typically a 20-25% depreciation for a used guitar or...
  55. M

    It's kind of depressing...

    I think it has more to do with us being spoiled by the unusually high resale value of Standard/Ultra over the last few years. Typically when you buy new gear you lose anywhere from 15-25% of the value the moment it becomes used gear (not unlike buying cars), and the fact that the Standard/Ultra...
  56. M

    What's the word on version 11 firmware?

    Just installed v11 and gave it a quick test drive. Difference is not night and day to me, but definitely noticeable. First thing I noticed is actually the top end - the JCM 800 sim, for example, has a smoother top end with less "crackle," if that makes sense. Dig it. Mike
  57. M

    Recently purchased an Ultra or Standard?

    Rock: New product released w/o warning. Recent customers are upset they bought "outdated" technology. Hard Place: Announce new product ahead of time. Lose sales for a few months right when you need the cash to get new product moving. Customers lose interest, or gets upset, when release is...
  58. M

    Am I alone in keeping the Ultra????

    There are some nice features in II that I wish the Ultra has, but they're nothing I can't live without. The Ultra already sounds so good, while the II will certainly sound better, I can't imagine it blowing the Ultra out of the water. I'll hang onto my Ultra, and reconsider once III hits the...
  59. M

    Blastoff!

    Excellent news! Totally with my Ultra, though. While I think the II will certain improve upon the Ultra, I just can't imagine it blowing the Ultra out of the water given the Ultra already sounds and feels like my old tube amps. The newer features are nice, but nothing that are "must haves"...
  60. M

    If my other gear is low rent, will it bring down the Axe Fx

    Re: If my other gear is low rent, will it bring down the Axe In my experience, if you're running it through a guitar cab, it's important to have a neutral sounding poweramp with the Axe, but not necessarily with regards to the cab/speaker. Think about it this way: the Axe models the preamp...
  61. M

    Ultra + SLA2 + Marshall 1960a: Anyone using this combo?

    That's my live setup - Ultra + SLA2 + 1960A with T75's. Works very well for live situations - it sounds and feels very much like I still have a traditional tube half-stack behind me, and it puts out as much power as a typical 100 watt tube head does. The stage presence of a half stack could...
  62. M

    Guys using an SLA-1 or 2, advice requested

    Bridge it should be fine - SLA1 is the same as the SLA2 I believe, which is 8 ohms bridged. Even in stereo, it's still 4 ohms per side - as long as the load is greater than the output, you're fine. Mike
  63. M

    Guys using an SLA-1 or 2, advice requested

    You just need a standard 1/4" cable between the Axe and the SLA2. Standard 1/4" speaker cable won't work between the SLA2 and the cab, but you have a few options: 1) buy a 1/4" to banana plug speaker cable, 2) buy a 1/4" to banana plug adaptor if you already have a 1/4" to 1/4" speaker cable...
  64. M

    Do shock rack cases really make a difference?

    Generally, if you carry your own gear, you can get away w/ just reasonable protection (e.g. standard racks, padded covers, gig bags, etc). If you are handing them off to roadies, that's a different story - better safe than sorry.
  65. M

    who uses 50 watts for bedroom jamming?

    ...why? The whole reason why there's a market for low wattage tube amps, is so you can get the power tubes working/compressing at non-ear splitting levels. The Axe is designed to model the power tubes, through a clean power section. In which case, a high power amp turned down is more or less...
  66. M

    Newbie Question: How do you position the AxeFX on stage?

    Ditto. I typically run a poweramp/4x12 setup, so it's usually top of my cab - but the handful of times I ran direct to the board, it's on the Ultimate stand (which I've used for years with various combos). I've also placed it upright behind/next to me when I had the Axe in a Gator Rack bag...
  67. M

    Leaked Pics! Fractal Prototype all-in-one floor unit!!

    I knew it was coming when I clicked on the thread...and I still lol'd. :lol: That is teh winz.
  68. M

    Amplifying the Axe Fx (poweramp+cabinet VS FRFR monitor)

    Can't check the clip right now, but I'll say that if you're trying to match a recorded tone, FRFR is definitely easier. Reason being that a good "in-the-room" live sound is very different from a studio recording - for example, if you go to a concert of your favorite band, chances are they will...
  69. M

    Amplifying the Axe Fx (poweramp+cabinet VS FRFR monitor)

    Both setups will work fine, but poweramp + cabinet will be an easier transition if you're used to a traditional setup. The Axe + poweramp basically becomes a multi-channel head on steroids with built-in studio quality effects, and a direct XLR out that comes very, very close to a mic'd up cab...
  70. M

    Line 6 G30 Wireless Guitar Transmitter

    Just picked up a G30 as well. I also looked at the G90, but just could not get myself to pay that much money when a G30 + shelf gets the same job done at half the price. I actually had an X2 previously, but the Relay definitely wins for the longer battery life, AA batteries instead of 9V, and...
  71. M

    SLA2 getting way too hot?

    Sorry your unit didn't work out - returning gear sucks. I do believe, though, that the bad batch is more of an exception than the rule. For the record, I'll stand by the build quality of my SLA2 any day. Even after 500+ hours of high volume band practice/live shows, and having been dropped...
  72. M

    SLA2 getting way too hot?

    If you're running it bridged at full tilt and the volume's only "manageable," something's not right. Make sure your connections are correct - in bridged mono, the banana plugs should be connected horizontally across the top two red connectors, not vertically to channel 1. As far as heat - it...
  73. M

    Does your SLA2 hum even with no input?

    It's a one year old thread, but deserves a bump because Jezza just saved me a good chunk of repair money. I had just noticed the hum recently, assumed that something must've broke because I had recently dropped the unit - but turns out it was just the wire under the transformer. Good thing I...
  74. M

    Anyone familiar with SS amp repair?

    Update: problem solved! Upon further research, turns out the unit was not damaged at all, but one of the wires was touching the transformer: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9020&p=87278&hilit=SLA+hum#p87278 Either the wire moved around during the fall, or the hum was always there, and I only noticed it...
  75. M

    What Class are ART SLA's??

    While I completely understand where you're coming from, there IS such a thing as diminished returns. Paying 4x the prices doesn't necessarily mean you're getting 4x the result - the difference is often subtle to all but the most discerning ears in controlled environments. Is that last 5-10% of...
  76. M

    Anyone familiar with SS amp repair?

    Thanks - since I have only basic knowledge in electronics, I think I'll just leave it alone for the time being, and bring it to a tech at some point. Now that we've narrowed down the source of the issue, I feel better about bringing it in. Appreciate everyone's help! Mike
  77. M

    Anyone familiar with SS amp repair?

    Thanks - I just tried it, but shorting the inputs doesn't make the hum go away. Mike
  78. M

    Anyone familiar with SS amp repair?

    The hum is present even when nothing's connected to the amp's inputs, and like I mentioned, it fluctuates if I move the output volume knob around. Mike
  79. M

    Anyone familiar with SS amp repair?

    Thanks a bunch for the tips. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find anything out of the ordinary - checked all the connections, make sure the screws are tight, and there were no visible cracks. I did notice that the hum is slightly louder on channel 1 vs. channel 2, and the hum actually...
  80. M

    Anyone familiar with SS amp repair?

    I'm wondering if anyone familiar with SS amps can help me out here: accidentally dropped the SLA2 while moving it around a few weeks ago. The ART is built like a tank - the rack ear is bent slightly, and otherwise looks and works just the same. I have, however, since noticed a very slight hum...
  81. M

    Axe-fx + poweramp and cab question

    +1 more. I run my Axe thru a poweramp/cab for live purposes, and go straight to mixer/monitors for recording/practice at home. I tweak my patches for good live sound first and foremost, and what worked out well for me is to pick a very similar cab IR to my actual cab/mic, so the direct tone...
  82. M

    Ultra arrived 10 hours ago - played it for 8

    Welcome to the brothahood. :D
  83. M

    Distorted Low String Palm-Muting....

    That would be my second suggestion as well - lower end frequencies carry a lot of energy than everything else, and could be distorting the inputs of the poweramp, and/or the speakers. Some models in particular are much bassier than the others, so you definitely have to be careful with the bass...
  84. M

    Distorted Low String Palm-Muting....

    Sounds like something is clipping - I would check your output levels, as the Axe's outputs are fairly hot, and could easily clip a poweramp's input. Mike
  85. M

    Controlling precisely where you start you tremolo?

    We also play to a click, and I had the exact same issue a while back. The LFO seems to start with the preset change, not when you activate/deactivate the trem block, so what I ended up doing was to create a preset with the tremolo already active (with the right tempo), then change to the preset...
  86. M

    Effects rack for Axefx

    Did anyone else notice that the product pic on the Amazon site actually has an Ultra in it? :D http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WJ ... PDKIKX0DER
  87. M

    Preferred amp sims for 7 string guitar?

    We tune our 6-string to drop B, and I've had good results with the Recto sims, as well as the 5150. Depending on my mood, I usually go with either the Recto Orange if I wanted it to be more "rock"-ish sounding, the Recto New if I wanted it more metal-ish and aggressive, or the 5150 if I just...
  88. M

    ART SLA-2 owners, some advice please!

    http://www.accentmusic.com/buy/Planet_W ... 76845.html EDIT: Didn't check my link in the initial post. Here's the correct product. Got mine from GC, but looks like they no longer carry it.
  89. M

    ART?

    There isn't really any tradeoff IMO. The popularity is primarily, as you said, because it's small and light, and packs a heck of a punch for its size. That said, it also sounds great with the Axe - it's been done well for me for the last couple hundred rehearsals and shows I've put mine...
  90. M

    Mini Gig Report: ART SLA-2 on double duty

    Did a show a week ago with a sit-in guitarist, who had a 4x12 handy, but was having trouble locating a power amp for his 11R. Plan A was just to have him go thru the PA, but once we find out that the venue's PA was....less than adequate, we had to go with Plan B, which was to have the ART power...
  91. M

    Interesting New Axe FX Owner

    I'm about 10 minutes away from Gelb - I've always had good experiences there. The prices aren't necessarily the lowest around, but it's fair, and is to be expected from a mom and pop store. They do carry quality stuff, and guys in there are generally very helpful. Mike
  92. M

    LF Jr with Roland EV-5

    I use a EV-5 with my Jr - haven't had that problem.
  93. M

    Ultra needs more power?

    It's probably the particular settings you have them setup, and not just the number of blocks - my guess would be the delay and verb blocks. My standard preset use up about 75-80% of the CPU power on the Ultra, and it has: Comp -> Wah -> Phaser -> Driver -> Amp -> GEQ -> Vol -> Feedback Send ->...
  94. M

    Do your factory settings sound too thin?

    I've never been a fan of running the Axe thru an actual tube power section, but FWIW, I've A/B'd the Recto Orange model on the Axe thru a SS poweramp (the SLA2) against the orange channel of Recto head thru the same cab. Without adding any EQ's, I can get the two to sound very, very similar at...
  95. M

    Live question???

    Good post - agreed. As for using the Axe live - I usually go through a poweramp/cab, but I've also gone direct to PA. Both works well, as long as it's setup properly and the sound guy knows what he's doing. Mike
  96. M

    Scary gig experience

    This man speaketh the truth. Cables is definitely the top of the usual suspects list, along with batteries, grounding, things not plugged into right places, channels muted... Actual gear failure is way at the bottom of the list. But for your amusement, one of our recent sound checks went like...
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