are they scared who knows

cyberk9

cyberk9

Inspired
I have been getting Facebook messages from certain Amplifier CEO's not mentioning any names out of respect...............that they are peeved at Fractal Audio because it's just to damn close to sounding like the real deal..(are they scared who knows)....I mean I've found out about a lot these amps I would have never known about if it were not for me buying and tinkering with the AXE FX...but the AX8 with 220 amps that recreate the incredible nuanced tone and feel of real tube amps: sparkling cleans, elusive “edge of breakup” tones, and everything from warm, touch-sensitive overdrive to face-melting distortion....plus 130+ “Factory” cabs...it's a no brainer and ....it's a great time to be a guitar player.....IMHO
 
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cyberk9 said:
I have been getting Facebook messages from certain Amplifier CEO's not mentioning any names out of respect...............
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Interesting that they would be that concerned... What makes the AFX great is the fact that it represents THEIR amplifiers. The more R&D or competitive advantage their company can make for their amps, the more desire there is for the marketplace to determine what amp has that tone that someone is looking for. They can't get upset at the fact that a piece of equipment is nearly 100% representative of their product because..... it's THEIRS. At one time I thought of how I would respond if I worked for Matchless, Two-Rock or Fender and how that would look for me. If anything I thought it would help me develop our tone even further and engineer a whole new amplifier sound.

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.
 
I thought I read somewhere that Friedman's sales had increased because of the Axe-FX. Not sure how correct that is.
 
There's no doubt been an impact. While their are plenty of tube only, vintage, old school, people left to buy amps. There's so many like myself who have ditched tube amps. Now with the AX8, Kemper and new Helix more people are getting into the digital realm than people going back to tube amps. So many upsides to modeling these days. Recording ease, backup storage, consistency, less noise in the rig, lower stage volume, ease of transporting....and great TONE. It's had to have hurt some sales.
 
I find the entire proprietary/open nature of the situation very fascinating. Cliff seems to have gotten the emulation down to the component level pretty convincingly so creating a new AxeFx amp model is simply a matter of having access to the schematic. While it's true that FAS and Atomic and Kemper are now working in the digital realm, what they are doing mirrors what's been happening in the amp world for decades: Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa, Soldano, Peavey, Friedman, etc... in isolation they've each contributed their little bit of innovation, but largely they've built on the foundation of their predecessors.

The bottom line at this point... what FAS is capable of doing is no different than the cloning that's been happening in the amp and pedal worlds with Joyo and Caline and a myriad of Chinese clones. They're largely just copying circuits. The real innovation is in how they've adapted real-world circuit behavior to the digital realm.

Down the road, I can see FAS releasing a circuit builder where you can go full dive and create your own amp models and tweak the existing ones at the component level. That's the next step.
 
alot of the amps modeled are very expensive-2k+ and i would doubt the amp companies are that upset to be modeled....its likely flattering.
 
The weird thing is you can't copyright a sound. That Marshall sound is awesome and if only Marshall can make it then they've got a great thing going. As benvigil said, other people came into the market to offer that sound with more features or a lower price. And that's no different I think from a modeling company entering the fray with more features and a better price, and a lot more amps, and fantastic effects. As chip costs continue to go down and become more powerful, tube amps will make less and less sense for all but diehards and collectors.
 
Not sure who is upset or why they would be. Line6/Yamaha, Korg/Vox, Kaman/Digitech, Peavey/Revalver, Samson/Zoom, Boss/Roland, Avid, Fender, Sansamp and more have all been making amp emulation software / hardware for years before Fractal Audio got into the market. Many of these are big companies with a long legacy of technology products and deep pockets. Some have had decades to develop better products first, but they didn’t and still don’t. Or they made a good initial effort, but dropped the ball along the way. Got to admire Fractal’s commitment to quality and high regard for the needs of their customers.
 
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Fractal has carved out a niche in the market in a lot the same way Boogie did back in the day... quality first and the price is what it is. That's not the same territory most other manufacturers operate in, but they are beginning to have crossover as Fractal enters the middle market areas. Fans of both are sure to have differing opinions on what is what. Fractal, like Boogie used to be, is a different business strategy than the others named here and is walking in different circles, really.

As it is with the OP, using Fractal Audio gear has exposed me to amp types I would have never owned or used (including some that don't exist outside the blessed black box). Same for FX, same for cabs. I am sure some manufacturers see the writing on the wall... it's like vinyl records. Some will always love and appreciate what they are, most have moved on. It'll be that way with amplifiers at some point. That might be scary. Then I'll look like some crazy old man... playing my Axe Fx 14, and surrounded by all my tube amps like old friends.
 
Well, the first tube guitar amps were actually radios with an input jack added to them. So I guess the tube guitar amp makers stole their legacy from a radio. So now we have a computer that sounds like a tube amp. Which is the more original and creative idea?
 
brianv4 said:
Is Fractal so accurate in its modeling that they are now infringing on an amp designers work?
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There are patents in place for various inventions related to amplification -- all the big manufacturers have them -- but the circuits and the sound they make are not patentable, mostly -- too much prior art. On that front FAS is in the clear because they produce sound in a meaningfully different way. But sounds themselves certainly CAN be trademarked. There are thousands of sounds-related trademarks in place. Remember when Harley Davidson sued Honda for trademark infringement of the "harley sound"? They eventually dropped it, but you get the idea.

If an amp designer could (1) successfully obtain a sound trademark covering the sound their amp makes, and (2) argue in court that FAS infringed on that trademark, then FAS could be in trouble.

You can file both in the "never gonna happen" category.
 
Wouldn't that be something if in the future Fractal, Kemper, and all the big modeling guys would have to dumb down their modeling quality because it was just as good as the real thing? We're already really close now, but just imagine how much better it could be in a few years.

I hope it never happens, but you never know.
 
Just my opinion, but no amp manufacturer is going to sue any time soon because it'd be like saying "hey, not fair! Your modelled version is just as good as the real thing now." It'd be like signing their own death warrant.
 
Of course tube amps won't die out, they're an integral part of guitar history. It's like saying you wouldn't buy a real Monet, if you could afford one, because you can get a really good print. I can see market share narrowing but never dieing out.
 
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